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Commercial classifieds are available for anyone in the business of selling tractors, parts, service and the like. Ads are available to anyone – not just subscribers to the N-News magazine.

(Larger establishments may want to consider placing a display ad too.) Tractor Trader classifieds are free for individual, non-commercial subscribers but subject to editor’s scrutiny. Each ad will appear once, so please resubmit your ad for future issues. Please print your ad on a separate sheet of paper. Deadlines are Nov. 1, May 1, Aug 1. If your Trader classified ad does not appear here be sure to check our.

It may be time to renew your ad placement! Want to add a picture, or scale-up your ad for more prominent placement in the magazine? Just Readers, be sure to mention to our advertisers that you found them in the N–News. Some offer discounts to N–News subscribers! Rest O Ride Seat Decal. Made exactly like original. Shows the hash marks for weight adjustment for drivers seat, on Rest O Ride Seats with spot for this decal.

White with black numbers. Send $8, and a self addressed stamped envelope to Camp David Ranch Products, 150 N. La Grange, Texas 78945, attn David. Ford 9N, 2N, 8N & 800 & 600 Wiring harnesses look like the original but are made with GXL heat and oil resistant wire that will take twice the heat of automotive wire. Includes a light harness w/solder on buttons in box. Wires color coded with diagram. Also available, mechanical starter switches and solenoids, generator cut-out & regulators.

Dennis Colbenson 507-835-1998 (MN) mncolbys@hickorytech.net Visa & Mastercard Parts for your 9N-2N-8N-NAA at 10% dis-count for N–Newsletter Members. Call Ed Tollmann, Kahn Equip, Jct 32-207, North Franklin, CT 06254. 860-642-7596 Used, rebuilt, & new tractor parts. Over 4000 tractors dismantled. Shipping worldwide.

800-367-8751 or 513-796-2154 Roberts Farm Equipment Inc. 11377 St, Rt 177-732, Camden, OH 45311 www.robertstractor.com NOS Ford implment parts back to 1939. Scott 717-580-4193 (PA) basketsntractors@aol.com. 1954 NAA; stripped and newly painted; 6v; starts and runs good; new tires, override clutch; PTO cover; all braces & stab bars, with swivel lock for draw bar.

Orig manuals Dearborn cultivator; 2 row, w/cropshield; center shoes and disc, stab bars, new paint. (.) Dearborn 2 bottom 12” plow; complete with coulters; new paint with manual. New Holland 451 sickle bar mower; 7’ bar; extra bar and cutters with rivet tool; with manual.

Price Reduced $6500 all units. Bob 570-250-8101. Located in Northeast Pennsylvania.

Contact: George 989-761-7174, MI, or email: gnswelch@hughes.net Tractor Trader FOR SALE Ads from the Current Issue 9n Magneto with drive and idler, working; $75 plus shipping. Marvin 608-725-5822 (WI) 8N completely restored. Overhauled engine, Sherman, new tires; $2500.

Ron 217-456-8001 (IL) 1939 9N, new electronic ignition, rebuilt carb & generator, new front bumper, new tires, new batt, new paint & decals. Has hi/low trans, 3pth; $4200. Bill 978-774-0262 (MA) 32” hat style wheel centers and rims, primed and painted; $650 for pair. Ford 660 runs very good, everything works, tires are almost new; $3250. 260-463-4341 (northeast IL) 1948 8N rebuilt eng. In good cond. Rear tires good.

600 Wagner loader two buckets, counter weight. Snow plow, frame, rear blade, 5’ brush hog. In Pembroke, MA; $4000 obo for all. Jim 781-834-4672 (MA) Complete set of pie weights and all mounting: $1150. Doug 903- 676-6974 (TX) Propane tank (full), hood and other parts from a propane Ford 801:$150 and you pick up -will not ship. Located near Missoula, MT. Just off I-90.

John 406-626-4700 Ford implements: flail mower, back blade, scoop, front end loader, 2-row planter, cultivator Make offer. Tom 443-926-6500 (MD) backbodkin1@verizon.net, Three 8Ns, all late models with tachs.

A 4cyl with a Sherman O/U and a Howard, a Funk cast pan OHV. All in different points of restoration and still picking away at, too much to list here. 989-590-0596 (MI) Snow plow off a 3 cylinder 2000.

Complete assembly: $200 obo. Bill 917-860-5402 (CT) Howard Reduction Gear Unit, Good gear teeth, with instructions; $800 plus shipping. Marvin 608-725-5822 (WI) 1947 2N, third owner. When running there was no smoke. Most bolt-on parts have been replaced.

Includes: 2-Bot Plow, Disc Harrow, 3-point Saw & flat belt drive on PTO, spare used rear tires and rims (loaded), Full shop manual. Poor health forces salet. Best offer over $2000 takes it all. Ken 440-725- 4348 (OH) thebowmers@roadrunner.com Ford 641, s/n 147250. Front-end loader with gravity bucket, Ford rear scraper blade, rear wheel weights (not mounted). Work tractor, not a show tractor. Photos available; $3500.

Patrick 847-336-3726 (IL) patricktyrrell@comcast.net 1952 8N Funk Conversion. Flathead 6 cylinder. Sheet metal is fair and off of tractor. No fenders: $1500 local pickup. Call or email for more detailed information. Dennis 817-523-4598 (TX) Dennisham123@gmail.com Ford 3400 with 730 loader. Motor is stuck but loader is in great condition.

Loader does have down pressure. Be sure to include: $1500. Richard 815 245 3667. (IL)goadrc@sbcglobal.net 9N w/orig side mount sickle bar mower, plow, & cultivator. Also front end loader with hydraulic bucket.

Low hours since complete overhaul. Always stored inside, 2nd owner. Tom $4000, 443-926-6500 (MD) backbodkin1@verizon.net Ford manuals, printed by Ford in the 1950s. Rigid shank cultivator; series J disc; spring shank cultivator; lister-planter; $12 each or all four for $40 + p&h. 402-319-8131 (NE) Howard Power Arm backhoe, 14’ reach.

3 pth mnted w/pump driven by PTO. Needs paint, but works: $1800 obo Bill 917-860-5402 (CT) Wagner tube style front end loader. No welds or repairs, nice and straight, good bucket. All high pressure hydraulic hoses replaced. Has hydraulic lift and hydraulic bucket tilt. Will fit Ford 9N, 2N, 8N. Ready to work only needs paint; $350.

John 860-455-8661 (CT) johnmaubin@gmail.com Ford Dearborn rigid shank cultivator model 13, 11 new Ford sweeps, sandblasted, primed, painted red; $500 cell 513-850-3174, kenbutterworth@yahoo.com, Lebanon, OH One Arm loader model 19-209 s/n #3655 w/mounting brackets bucket needs some work; $750. Doug 903-676-6974 (TX) Ford 961 Diesel narrow front but wide front may be available, with set of rear dual tires and rims. Tractor is orig.

Except for seat. In good mechanical condition. Sheet metal good cond. Excellent restoration project. Located in southwest Ohio; $3800.

David.Bucher@covad.net 501-414-2808 cell New Holland 270 PTO hay baler stored in barn over 20 years had it out 3 years ago it worked well; $900. Brian 845-439-1004 (NY) Dearborn snowplow 19-1 frame and 19-3 blade, complete with four brackets and cables.

Last used on an 8N; $250. Charles 413-841-0958 (MA) cjgamba@bcn.net 1939 9N parts: 9N smooth axle set; $500. 32” rear wheel centers set; $200.

32” rear wheel rim; $300. Front hub set; $100. Aluminum dash; $100. Dale 608-628-2108 (WI) 1966 Ford 2000 Offset.

Looks good, runs very good asking $4500. 215-256-6239 located in Harleysvillem PA 400X19 WHEELS, 1-9N, 2-8N; $15 ea. LH lift link #585; $10ea.

RH lift link #579, w/crank & yoke; $30. 2-stabilizer bars, #230042; $20. RH & LH pull links; $15ea. 1-PTO override clutch; 1 1/8” to 1 3/8”; $20. 1- PTO adaptor 1 1/8” to 1 3/8”; $10.

1-PTO adaptor 1 3/8” to 1 1/8” $10. 801 dash; $15. 1-9N rear fat muffler clamp; $10. 1-set of 8N running boards; $20.

1 set of Ferguson running boards, will fit 9N; $20. 1-9N “I” beam radius rod. 1-9N 3526 steering gear, $25. 1-14A Ferguson plow, $250.

Carl cell 717-261-6725, Home-717-263-8899 (PA) joanne17201@yahoo.com 1948 8N, new electronic ignition, rebuilt carb, new front bumper, new tires, new battery, new paint & decals, 3tph & lights; $4800. Bill 978-774-0262 (MA) 1951 8N s/n 353061. Orig, 6-Volt system w/ new battery. Engine is very strong and runs perfect. The hood is perfect, primed, and ready to paint.

The fenders will need some minor work. Tires good w/minor weather checking. New steering wheel, seat: $2500. No text or emails. 931-206-1429 Clarksville, TN.

Massey Ferguson 35, restored and completely overhauled; $3500. Ron 217-456-8001 (IL) 1948 8N – Completely restored.

All sheet metal parts sand blasted, primed, professionally painted. New Firestone front tires. Excellent Firestone rear tires. Beautiful tractor.

Come to see her. Joe South central Pennsylvania Cell – 814-312-5924 Home – 814-839-2650 1953 Golden Jubilee – New Firestone tires. Primed, painted, 100% original. South central Pennsylvania Cell 814-312-5924 Home 814-839-2650 2 – Good Year Turf tires 13.6-28 w/good tread. For 8N – NAA and mounted w/center disks included.

Pick up only. Marvin 608-725-5822 (WI) Tractor Trader WANTED Ads From the Current Issue Complete power steering unit for 861 Ford. Dave 765-863-1089 (IN) Good used rear tires and rims for 1950-51 ford 8N. George 315-539-5112 home / 315-246-0134 cell (NY) geoappli@gmail.com 7’ cutter bar p/n 141006.

7’ knife assembly p/n 142669. Or, a Dearborn rear sickle model 14-16. 574-626-3397 (IN) 700 or 900 front weight box and weights. David 336-798-1840 (NC) davidandsandy1@gmail.com Ford snow cab to fit 2N. As new (in the 1950s) this cab was made with a canvas top and sides supported by a steel frame. Cab had plastic windshield, canvas doors with plastic windows.

I’m interested in any condition, even just the steel frame. Art 860-745-7019 (CT) Dearborn Model 19-4 V Plow as close to West MI as possible or willing to help with shipping. Troy 231-590-0578 or summerst@mail.gvsu.edu (MI) HELP!

Restoring a 1940 motor tug model BNO 40. Looking for the rear wheel hub. Augie 602-499-6941 (AZ) Hydraulic pump for a 1953 Wagner loader on Golden Jubilee or info where to get one overhauled. Frank fforr34875@aol.com cell # 860-690-2845.

(CT) Tractor Trader FREE Ads From the Current Issue Dearborn 19-1 universal frame needs to be welded, must pick up. Charles 413-841-0958 (MA) cjgamba@bcn.net Tractor Trader FOR SALE Ads from Previous Issues Ford Dearborn rigid shank cultivator model 13, 11 new Ford sweeps, sandblasted, primed, painted red; $500 cell 513-850-3174 kenbutterworth@yahoo.com, Lebanon Ohio Ford 601 single row corn picker Fully mounted; $1500. Dave 724-423-1233 (PA) 8N engine block, side mount distributor with magneto ignition. Engine has been disassembled but is complete and guaranteed to include every component.

$450 fob Etters, PA. George 717-938-6480 (PA) 8N Zenith carb; $50. Snow Chains $50, (3 chains), Pete 215-327-5482 (PA) pcl022@aol.com Step through Superior Loader model H-1185. Randy 641-481-6071 (IA) Selling my 1948 8N due to health. Very nice cond.

Always garaged, org. New rear tires/tubes/rims. Good paint & sheet metal. New DC grill.

Many parts new or rebuilt; $2500. Tom 978-658-8670 (MA) 1939 Dearborn Plow, great shape; $400. Pair of smooth axles for 1939 9N ready to mount; $600. Craig 802-285-6428 (VT) 1962 Ford 4000, 4cyl, LPG, nice running, steering & hydraulics.

Electronic ignition. Good tin, ready to roll; $3500. Paul 631-325-1634 (NY) Ford “pie” weight package: Rear wheel segment weights, mounting rings, attaching hardware. Also includes two front wheel weights, plus four bookcase weights (no mounting frame). Approximate weight is 2300 lbs; $1200. Located about 40 miles west of Harrisburg, PA. Being sold by local Boy Scout Council.

717-938-6480 (PA) 1951 8N, good cond. New tires, includes 6’ rear blade; $2500. Richard 802-723-4833 (VT) 9N or 2N complete rear end includes brakes and all. Has been in my shed for years. From a running tractor salvaged years ago and believed to be in good shape; $100. Also have several other misc 9N parts for sale; Jerry 931-206-1429 (TN) jverk@charter.net Restored Ford 740; $7500. Restored Ford 741 wide front, p.s., Sherman combo; $8500.

Restored Ford 841 Elenco 4wd, p.s., Sherman combo; $14,000 Original ford 961 n.f.,p.s., new tires; $5000 Marty 803-920 3100 (SC) mjblack@pbtcomm.net 1948 8N, completely rebuilt engine, radiator, new ring gear, clutch, new rear rims, tires, rebuilt carb, new battery and wiring, 6v. Complete log book of all work done on complete restoration. Manuals included. Excellent show condition; $5000.

603-926-5453 (NH) chetriley@comcast.net Belt pulley for Ford 8N with adapter housing and PTO adapter to use pulley on regular sized PTO; $100. Lift arm extensions for 8N to use with sickle mower; $25 + s&h. 218-485-8747 (MN) 1954 Ford NAA, bush hog, blade, 12 volt, good rubber, barn kept; $3400, Doug 937-654-0502, (SW OH) jilldougb@gmail.com Tired of having to change implements in the middle of the job? Buy my two tractors! 1953 NAA Jubilee and 1939 9N, both starting and working tractors, not parade pretty exc workers. Good tires & hydraulics, tin needs paint/work, but all there.

Lots of parts, manuals, etc. Selling as a pair, $5000 for both. Bob 802-223-0207 (VT) or rericeworks@gmail.com 1 pair new Firestone 5.5 x 16 single rib tires with new tubes mounted on 9N/2N rims. Rims were blasted and epoxy primed; $200.

Gordon 507-676-5771 (MN) Sherman combination trans, 3 spd, fits 8N, NAA; $750. Sherman Step-Up, fits 8N-NAA; $300. Live PTO set up from Jubilee, complete kit, everything works; $950.

Dale 608-628-2108 (WI) 1964 Super Dexta 2000 Ford tractor, runs good; $3750 obo. Diane 802-723-6483 (VT) Used gas tank fits 2000-4000. Has gas gauge port in good condition; $50 + s&h. Greg 845-626-7566 (NY) 28 Ford 6000 tractors! All in work clothes and in various condtions. Sat for some time. Located in Wisconsin.

Brian 8am-5pm M-F 608-647-3490 (IL) Snow plow and hardware from a 3 cylinder 2000 in CT. Bill 917-860-5402 jenksgroup@aol.com Ford Dearborn rigid shank cultivator model 13, 11 new Ford sweeps, sandblasted, primed painted red; $600. Ken cell 513-850-3174 (OH) kenbutterworth@yahoo.com 1951 8N Ford show tractor. 290 original hours. Restored to new condition: $6000. Carl Bellville, Texas 979-865-3805 (TX) cfeldt2@yahoo.com 8N script hood and doglegs. Dented but not rusted out: $100 obo.

Chris 518-339-5690 (NY) 1939 9N. New tune up, new water pump, new front & rears, good paint, runs nice; $3500.

605-929-4566 (SD) 1940-1952 Dearborn Mower, 6’ bar, 3pth attach; $195. Two Ford script fenders; $350 pair. 1940-52 gas tank; $150. 9N, 2N, 8N radiator; $150. Mike 408-779-7822 (CA) Fordson Dexta 144ci Perkins 3cyl.

Fordson Super Dexta 2000 152ci Perkins 3cyl. Both mechanically sound. 828-349-0810 (NC) 8N engine, 1951- Block, crank, head, cam, lifters, pistons, and connecting rods, front cover. Minus – water pump, side dist., dipstick and flywheel.

Engine is apart, comes with new int./exh. Manifold: $300 Mark 734-241-8527 (MI) Sicklebar, 3pth, antique; $150 with spare blade.

Joe 828-349-0810 (NC) 1942 2N, restored, bumper, lights, drawbar, magneto, 12v; $3000. Dennis 707-485-5850 (CA) Power steering for Ford 2000; $1200. Larry 864-723-1836 (SC) Snow plow off 3 cylinder 2000; $400 obo.

860-824-0870 (CT) jenksgroup@aol.com Plow wrench, has inch marks and 3” & 6” numbers, not Ford marked, aftermarket, very nice cond; $15 +PO. Ford Industrial Engine shop manual for 134-172-192; $20 +PO. Rich 402-319-8131 (NE) 1949 8N restored, low hours, Hupp overdrive, Cyclone filer, lights, wheel weights; $3500. Dennis 707-485-5850 (CA) 1951 8N restored, Bowman Orchard fenders, Sherman hi/lo, bumper, lights, wheel weights(4), drawbar, Cyclone filter; $5000. Dennis 707-485-5850 (CA) Parts for sale: 9N-2N-8N 19” wheels; $25ea.

2N-9N brake assembly w/pedals, r&l; $20ea. 9N 5370 safety chain assy; $20. 9N 5374 stay upper and 5375 lower; $5 each. 9N 5182 Ford eleven hole drawbar; $25. 8N/9N,NAA stabilizer kit; $30. 8N569B righthand level box; $30. 9N 596 & 597 pair anchors; $5.

9N 536 sector steering, RH; $50. 9N566 knuckle; $3. 9N 564 lift rod; $10 1-1/8” to 1 3/8” PTO over-riding clutch; $20. 9N “I” beam radius rod; $20. 9N 9600 air cleaner; $10.

Large center clamp for 9N fat muffler; $10. Set of 8N running boards; $20. Set Ferguson 20-30 running boards; $20. Right & left 8N pull links; $20ea. PTO extension; $25.

Dash to fit 601-901; $10. 2N engine crank; $20. 9N front wheel hub; $10. Top link 600-800; $10. Sauder brake lever, complete; $50.

Plow jointer blade w/bracket; $5. Ferguson 14A plow, nice; $250.

Ford 10-156 14” razor blade plow, HD beams, nice; $300. Ford Reversable 3pth scoop; $150.

9N rear work light bracket; $10. 717-261-6725 (PA) Front mnted snowplow for Ford tractor. Also chains for 11×28. 763-689-3901 (MN) 1951 8N restored, Arps tracks, lights, drawbar, wheel weights; $4500. Dennis 707-485-5850 (CA) 1955 740, restored Howard low range, Rest-O-Ride seat, power steering, lights, drawbar, umbrella; $5000. Dennis 707-485-5850 (CA) 9N pair of smooth axles with drums & bearings; $500. Front wheel weights; $200.

Pair of interchangeable brake pedals; $150. Rear wheels; $100/$150. Dennis 707-485-5850 (CA) 1958 641, restored, lights, drawbar, wheel weights, umbrella; $4000. Dennis 707-485-5850 (CA) NOS FORD TRACTOR Tract-O-Lite Headlights & Worklights; 6V or 12V; restored, complete with new paint: $200 per pair plus shipping. Dearborn 10-156 Economy Plow with Third Beam Attachment -14” 3-bottom Plow: $500 pick up only in Michigan.

Tim 810-338-1391 (MI) 1952 8N low hours, orig. Tires and paint; $2500. Ned 740-387-8867 (OH) Front and rear steel wheels for 2N. Have always been garaged, good cond; $450. Richard 315-695-5056 (NY) Very nice 8N, very nice Farmall A, Ford tractor parts.

Bob 315-323-0622 (NY) 1954 Ford 960 Powermaster, looks like orig paint, no ps, w/4 new tires and 6’ finish mower; $3900. Ned 740-387-8867 (OH) 1953 or 1954 NAA complete live PTO set up; $300. Clay 570-425-2743 (PA) Sherman Step-Up Trans, fits 9N-8N, good shape; $350. Dale 608-628-2108 (WI) Two smooth axles for 1939 or 1940 9N. New Sure-Seals and bearing, ready to mount; $600 obo. Craig 802-285-6428 (VT) Ford weight package: Ford rear wheel segment pie weights for 28″ wheel.

Set, mounting ring, & all nuts/bolts. Includes two frt whl wghts that bolt to outside & four bookcase wghts that mount on front frame below radiator. Total wght approx 2300lbs; $1200 complete, fob Loysville, PA. George 717-938-6480.

Location is about 40 miles west of Harrisburg, PA. Being sold to benefit a local Boy Scout Council. 1948 8N Everything works. New rear brakes and axle seals.

Replaced radiator, clutch, front pivot bushing. Gas tank sealed. Overriding PTO clutch. Completely serviced and ready to go; $2400. 352-588-3570 (FL) Ford Dearborn rigid shank cultivator model 13, 11 new Ford sweeps, sandblasted, primed painted red; $600. Ken 513-850-3174, kenbutterworth@yahoo.com, Lebanon, Ohio 1953 Jubilee parts for sale: 2-steering boxes,
2-new 15×5 frt tires, Trans for parts, Engine for rebuild, Gauge cluster sheet metal, Sheet metal emblem surround.
L/R axle housings, Hydraulic lift cylinder, PTO shaft, Axle shaft, 3pth lower arms, much more. 978-835-0530 (MA) rmackay@connexusmfg.com Set of 4 tires for 9N, 10-28, good tread; $400.

Ned 740-387-8867 (OH) Howard Reduction Gear unit, good gear teeth, with instructions; $1200. Marvin 608-725-5822 (WI) pick up in Cassville WI. Late model 8N engine block comp. W/side distrib. Engine was removed from a government forklift truck built by Mototruck & included a magneto ignition rather than a standard distributor. Engine is disassembled but I guarantee all parts are complete, including the magneto; $550. Fob Etters, PA 17319 George 717-938-6480 (PA) Brackets to mount 2-row corn picker on 4200 Ford row crop, probably fit other tractors too.

Stan 270-945-2449 (KY) 1948 841 gas, gd tires & paint, has two-valve w/house; $2500. 1940 9N with Sherman Step-Up, runs gd; $1750. Ned 740-387-8867 (OH) 1947 8N restored inside out, and front to back; $5000 obo Floyd. 775-997-6180 (NV) or wrpspd1@att.net Ford 8N used tractor parts – bumper; $25. Carburetor; $40, manifold; $20. Fields 251-422-3353 (AL) tffields@msn.com Rear mounted wood saw, 3pth, belt drive from Ford pulley on rear of tractor.

Pulley fits the smaller 1-1/8″ spline. Saw blade is 30″ diameter. All in good condition. Saw and pulley complete; $350 fob.

717-938-6480 (PA) Location is near Harrisburg, PA. Pair of Ford 9N smooth axles complete units, separated from tractor at differential housing; $1000. Marvin 608-725-5822 (WI) pick up in Cassville WI.

Arps Half Tracks to fit an International M or Super M. Jim 701-739-2380. (ND) Ford 3 pth hay side delivery rake. Good useable condition; $350. John 218-779-5727 (ND) 1950 8-N w/ loader hyd. Runs, has early front distributor engine, good tires; $1800. Obo John 402-797-2010 (NE) if no answer, leave message.

Or sandsmachine@windstream.net 1951 8N, show tractor, 290 orig. Exellent cond; $6000. Carl 979-865-3805 (TX) Zenith carb for 8N, 2N, 9N. Came off my running 8N and have used it on a 2N and a 9N; $95 plus postage. Pete Phone 215-327-5482 (PA) pcl022@aol.com Front end loader for a 1954 Ferguson TO 35; $400.

Ford 505 3PH Sickle bar mower; $200. Ron 203-249-0145 (CT) 1946 2N great original condition. PTO adapter with clutch. Radiator replaced. Aftermarket footrest. Operator’s and Service Manuals. Good working tractor; $1750 obo.

Jim 717-263-0571 (PA) 1941 2N. Reconditioned 8 years ago. Has original steel tires. One of the last assembled before WWII. Belongs in museum. Pics available.

Delivery possible Jeff 724-462-8589 (PA) Snow plow off 3 cylinder 2000; $400 obo. 860-824-0870 (CT) jenksgroup@aol.com Two new General 12.4-28 tires on original “hat” rims.

The tires are older but have never been used and show no sign of weather checking. The rims are solid and no holes. Valve stem holes are solid. $1350 for the pair. Located in Adams county, PA for local pickup. Leonard 717-515-0355 (PA) 1951/52 8N Funk Conversion 6 cyl – completely refurbished.

New rear tires/new rear rim/no fluid. Sherman Hi-Lo. Dirt catcher auxilary air cleaner. Front bumper. Parade ready: $6500.

Sid 608-484-1551 (WI) 2 – 1966 Ford Commander 6000 wide front, 1 gas & 1 diesel, $5000 for both, obro. Antique Dearborn Wood Bros. 6′ pull type combine, vg cond, $700. Jimmy 301-904-0168 (MD) 1957/58 601 Ford Diesel Select-O-Speed. Power Steering. Hydraulic front blade; $6500. 608-484-1551 (WI) Dearborn dozer blade, NOS never hit the ground, excellent shape.

Blade fits Ford Hundred Series tractors & Jubilee; $950. John didomenicojohn@aol.com 716-445-9850 (NY) Large amount of 9N-2N-8N parts for sale. Transmission cases, rear end cases, motor parts, carbs, starters, generatorsmore.

Located in western Montana. Come out for a summer vacation with your truck! 2N steel wheels in exc. Shape, Funk OHV 8N, etc.

John 406-626-4700 Frenchtown, MT rustynutsvtp@gmail.com EARLY 1950s Farmall Cub. Snow plow, land plow, disc, sickle, saw rig, wheel weights, tire chains; $3500 obo. Joseph 413-623-8767 (MA) Dearborn single bottom plow, complete; point workable; unrestored; $250. Peter 603-924-8417 (NH) Ford 600 Gas Tractor.

Great mower tractor. Everything works as it should. Delivery possible; $2500 obo Jeff 724-462-8589 (PA) Ford 2000 gas. Totally rebuilt motor.

Less than 2 hrs on the rebuild. Many new parts. Big tires and roll bar. Delivery possible; $4500 obo Jeff 724-462-8589 (PA) Ford 192 gas industrial engine with sheet metal, radiator, gas tank in original stand, can hear it run; $1750. Gary 269-506-6936 (MI) 1948 8N, restored, new paint & decals, new tires, new bat, frt bumper, new gas tank, reblt carb, electronic ignition; $4800. Bill 978-774-0262 (MA) 1939 9N, new tires, new bat, front bumper, new electronic ignition, high/low trans, reblt carb & gen; $4200. Bill 978-774-0262 (MA) Center mounted next to rows cultivator “for all Ford & Ferguson tractors.” Manufactured by American Manufacturing Comp, St Joseph, MI in the 1950s.

Could be rare implement. Have sales lit, instructions and all parts; $450 Bill 248-464-4467 (MI) Ford Originality Book by Peterson & Beemer, color, nice; $25 + PO. Stevens 402-319-8131 (NE) 1952 8N, 1953 Jubilee, very good condition; $3000 each. Ned 740-387-8867 (OH) Dearborn 22-1 cordwood saw. Complete, good cond except paint; $200. Ray 859-361-6971 (KY) Two Ford stabilizer brackets; $25 + PO.

Stevens 402-319-8131 (NE) Ford Tractor Shop Manual 1955-1960, 420 pages, clean; $65 + PO. Stevens 402-319-8131 (NE) 1951 8N, #408385, excellent cond. Good tires; $2500.

1947 2N #30227, org paint, straight, buggy top; $2500. 1952 8N #477245, complete, not running; $1500. 3 pth plow, cult, dirt scoop, back blade, more. Robert 320-396-2084 (MN) Ferguson rear blade made by Carrington.

6’ wide, can change angle from tractor, non-reversible; $220. Bill 248-464-4467 (MI) Love 3-Disc parts list and operating instructions; $30. Ageless Iron articles in 1991 Successfully Farming magazines 4 for $20 +PO. Zenith carburetor VTA-894, some red paint; $60 +PO. Rich 402-319-8131 (NE) Ford Dearborn 2 bottom 12” plow, model 10-8, sand blasted, primed, painted, fully functional coulters, jointers, rear furrow wheel. $250 obo 513-850-3174 kenbutterworth@yahoo.com Lebanon, Ohio Ford Dearborn rigid shank cultivator model 13-1, 11 new Ford sweeps, sandblasted, primed, painted, $600obo. 513-850-3174, kenbutterworth@yahoo.com Lebanon, Ohio Burch one row Cultivator, 6 shanks, sandblasted, primed, painted; $200 obo.

Cell 513-850-3174 kenbutterworth@yahoo.com Lebanon, Ohio 1943 2N on original steel wheels with loader w/trip bucket. $1950 Ned 740-387-8867 (OH) Two Cylinder model tractors, model C, C, P, 620 orchard, 1929 wide tract tractor, all in boxes never opened. $50.00 each plus shipping, cell 513-850-3174 kenbutterworth@yahoo.com Lebanon, Ohio Pair of 4.00×19 3 rib tires mounted on Ford 8N wheels, like new. Stuart 315-404-4566 (NY) PTO mounted pulley at $50 and several misc. Parts, new and used. Prices to be determined.

Stuart 315-404-4566 (NY) Dearborn 10-14 Two-Way Plow orig. Dearborn 10-156 2-bot. Plow with a 3rd beam conversion, has coulters & jointers, all rebuilt but no new paint; $750. Funk flathead starter; $225. Greg 989-590-0596 (MI) gdurdik@live.com New Holland Hay Bailer Mod# 273, New Holland Haybine Mower-Conditioner Mod# 467, New Holland Side Delivery Hay Rake on wheels Model #55.

Two-Wheel Tedder Rake. Complete Haying Package All four imps; $3800. Can e-mail photographs. John at 508-754-9060 (MA) John@martinbroscont.com Jubilee or NAA with hole in the motor, missing center sheet metal. All other parts there. Also have a used motor to go with it; $1500.

Richard 847-464-5543 (IL) 3 tractors found in weeds of a golf course. #1 – 9N on steel wheels, see photo ad. #2 – 641, 1960, Ford orig. Red paint, has wet rear hose set up w/valve, full pie weights, 3pth. #3 – 1975 Ford, orig. Blue and cream. ALL were running when parked.; $6000 for all three OR would like to trade for N half-tracks or V8N or tractor with loader.

Mike 401-632-9066 (RI) 9N/2N 16” front whls & hubs – whls fair cond. Hubs gd; $85. Hugh 580-772-7530 (OK) Ford pie weights 28″ complete set; $750. 24″ complete; $975. Will not ship.

Gary 269-506-6936 (MI) Ford/Dearborn Equip, all to go together, will not separate; 19-1 Front Blade, 13-10 Rotary Hoe, 13-5 Weeder, 22-44 Cordwood Saw w/pulley, 10-158 2-Bottom Plow, 19-2 Loader w/hyd. Bucket, 19-6 Dirt Scoop, Digger/Cultivator, Tractor Lift Jacks, Chains, Arps Dozer Tracks. $2175 for all. Kip 603-539-2011 (WI) 1953 Jubilee, new rear tires, good front tires.

Foot throttle. Good sheet metal. Metal rear platform, new battery, runs well. Vernon 845-855-3079 (NY) Set of pie weights (for 2 wheels) w/2 mounting plates and all mounting bolts; $1000.

If paid for, I can bring it to the Temple, TX show the first weekend in October. Fred 361-265-9309 (TX) 1964 Model 70 IH Cub Cadet lawn & garden tractor 7hp. Original owner, bought from Dwight Ford’s Garage, Sheffield, MA. Belly mower & snow blower, inc.

Richard 413-528-4092 (MA) rpburds@aol.com Snow Plow & frame from a Ford 2000. Raises and lowers with a cable to the 3 pth. Bill 917-860-5402 (CT) jenksgroup@aol.com 1963 4000, gas, restored with 730 Ford loader.

16.9 x 28 loaded rear tires with cross-link chains. Includes owners and factory service manuals. Receipts for all work accomplished. Utility/industrial front end with power steering; $7995 cash on pick up. Keith 906-249-3262 (MI) kaj68@att.net 1948 8N, starts & runs exc. Tires 90%, org 6v, sheet metal vg, strong hydr; $2900 obo.

Francis 616-799-4381 (MI) 1966 2000, Blue, gas, 4spd, 12v, all original, second owner. This has been my mower tractor for 25 years. Would be a good addition to your collection; $4000. RA Stevens 402-319-8131 (NE) 19-80 universal dozer frame.

Fits NAA and similar. Front pulley & cable, but no rear pulley.

Also front attachment. Light rust but very solid; $100. Richmalecki@gmail.com (NY) 8’ Landpride HD Rollover blade, push, pull or dig with teeth; $1500. 5’ Ford HD 3pth blade (yellow); $200.

4’ Ford finish mower 920A, 4 wheels, 3pth; $400. All items used little.

Roger 810-516-7999 (MI) 1951 8N Exc cond, used for shows & parades, only 276 hours. Carl 979-865-3805 (TX) Dearborn 2-12 plow mod# 10-152; $250. Dearborn rear scoop mod# 19-6; $100.

Dearborn rear mower mod# 14-73; $50. Ferguson single plow, new share but poor slats, mod# 16-AO-28; $100 Tom 540-992-4308 (VA) or truck@RBnet.com 1964 Model 100 IH Cub Cadet lawn & garden Tractor 10 hp. Bought at Salem Farm Supply March auction about 1985. Belly mower, snow blower, rototiller. Richard 413-528-4092 (MA) rpburds@aol.com 1946 2N w/hi-lo trans.

Will deliver for costs. John 505-821-8030 (NE) johncarolynk@comcast.net Loader off a Ferguson, but will fit on a Ford. One-way cylinders, trip bucket. Good condition, nearly new paint.

No hydraulic valves. Duane 850-259-2079 (FL) duaneduane27@outlook.com 1957 900 Rowcrop, excellent rear tires, engine free, needs reassembly, repair manual included; $1600. Will consider parting out. Robert 630-542-8474 (IL) 600 Ford Forklift works great, good tires, very rare and useful.

Richard 815-245- 3667 (IL) goadrc@sbcglobal.net 1957 861 runs good, good tires, Live PTO & 3pth; $3100 Mike 712-624-8840 or 712-370-3047 (IA) Entire 30 year Vol 1 – 30 set of THE N NEWS All issues in great condition. $250.00 plus $20.00 shipping. I have moved to the city and was forced to sell my Ford Jubilee so I no longer need these great reference newsletters. Mike 618-967-9735 mfitz@mychoice.net (IL) 1952 Dearborn rigid shank cultivator #13-1, 11 new Ford sweeps, sandblasted, painted, stored in barn since 1960; $650 obo, kenbutterworth@yahoo.com 513-850-3174 (OH) 1952 Burch Plow Works, Evansville IN, one row cult, 6 shanks, primed/painted Ford blue, stored in barn; $250 obo kenbutterworth@yahoo.com 513-850-3174 (OH) 1952 Ford Dearborn 2-bot plow, each 12 inches wide, primed/painted, fully functional coulters, jointers and rear furrow wheel; $350 obo. Kenbutterworth@yahoo.com 513-850-3174 (OH) 1951/52 8N rear end with dry, working brakes, pedals, PTO shaft and lift cover with arms, stored inside asking $350.

William 616-319-1798 (MI) wjtboats@hotmail.com Ford loader off 640 with newer hyd. Pump, down pressure and hyd trip bucket, ready to install $450. William 616-319-1798 (MI) wjtboats@hotmail.com Two Cylinder model tractors, model C, C, P. 630 orchard tractor, 1929 wide tract tractor, all in boxes and never opened; $55 each plus shipping.

Kenbutterworth@yahoo.com 513-850-3174 (OH) 1952 8N, gd cond, has original hour meter, very high serial number; $1900. Dearborn loader also available. Darrell 417-345-7914 or 417-838-9310 (MO) Tractor Trader WANTED Ads From Previous Issues Sherman 3-spd and 2-spd transmissions especially one 2-spd step down or deep under (entire transmissions no basket cases please) Norman 208-880-4323 (ID) nmkeesler1@gmail.com Dearborn snowplow frame with hydraulic cylinder to fit 800 series in good condition. 845-626-7566 (NY) 2 – 16.9 x 28 R1 6 Ply tires. 2 – 15 x 28 6 loop rims. Dave 603-648-2162 (NH) nhdas56@gmail.com Completely restored 9N to take to shows.

Don 605-635-6587 dlmendel@nvc.net Searching for Dearborn Model 19-4 V plow near W. MI, as well as literature/sales brochure for the Dearborn 19-3 and 19-4 Snowplows. Troy 231-590-0578 (MI) summerst@mail.gvsu.edu Ford 601 single row corn picker. Fully mounted (red and gray); $1500.00 Dave 724-423-1233 (PA) One complete set of belly cultivators for Ford 2000 offset tractor.
Dave 540-392-5693
(VA) dwhitloc@swva.net 3 or 4 bottom semi-mounted Ford plow. Small tail wheel with hydraulic cylinder. Red series #112 or 101. 101 preferred.

Don 989-239-2791 (MI) Complete working magneto for 9N or 2N. 208-880-4323 nmkeesler1@gmail.com Original lift arm 34” long for 8N. Also, original amp & oil gauge for 8N. Mike 408-779-7822 (CA) Complete set of pie weights for a 1963 Ford 4000 Industrial, in MI or northern OH, at a reasonable price. 586-752-7919 (MI). N-NEWS, 8N belt buckle. Kirk 775-315-4943 (NV) Would like to purchase a front loader to fit a 1750 Oliver Tractor.

Roger 641-777-0291 (IA) Ford, NH, Sperry NH advertising signs and clocks. Any condition.

Lloyd (717) 821-2367 (PA) Parts for a 14-93 Model Sickle Mower. Jim 701-739-2380 (ND) Wheel weights for JD 4052M. 200 lbs or more. Please include weight, location, and price. Tom (DE) TSchuyler@Netzero.net Hydraulic valve in working condition for 1958 861.

Greg 845-626-7566 (NY) In search of literature or promotional material on the 1959 Ford Select-O-Speed gold colored dealer demonstrator tractors. George 859-350-5005 (KY) Ford Ferguson Advertising sign, about 2’ x 2’, gray in color. Paul 763-689-3901 (MN) Crossfire Dual Exhaust system for 1951 8N 4-cyl tractor. Paul 641-752-1959 (IA) Sickle mower for 8N, model L-14-59, close to Iowa. Keith 319-759-5458 (IA) Adaptor plate for flathead ford V8 for Ford 8N. Gary 701-343-6422 (ND) Looking for a Ford 3000 from the 1970s era in decent running condition.

No loader installed & prefer gas but can live with a diesel. Al 518-963-8351 (NY) ahhutch33@wildblue.net. Work, Money & Happiness Most people in Vermont have at least two or three jobs – it is just the nature of living in a rural part of the country. I am no exception. Certainly the N-News is my primary job and it takes up full time hours (sometimes more), but there are other things I do as well. My extended family has grown garlic for the past twenty years.

We have a few small plots growing a total of eight to ten thousand heads every year. It is a labor-intensive crop since much of the work has to be done by hand. It brings in a little extra income, makes for some good family and friends time and keeps us in good supply of “the stinking rose” throughout the year. For the last three years, I have also been selling wood-fired pizzas, with support from friends and family. We go to a handful of private and public events over the summer.

It isn’t a big money maker, but it is a lot of fun and very, very different from working in the office on a computer or in the garlic field. It is more social and interactive.

The pizza gig came about when my wife and I were having a post-wedding party a few years ago. I started looking around for a pizza oven to rent, but found the prices to be incredibly steep. Being a “project guy,” I began to seriously consider building one myself. After doing some research, I remembered that a local gentleman had built a bunch of these ovens and had even written a book about it. I contacted Dan and he and I came to an agreement to build an oven together. It was a fun project and will certainly lead to other projects.

The oven was a hit at our party, with many of our guests, kids and adults, enthusiastically joining the pizza-making fun. The pizza oven became a social center.

After the party was over, I had this, funky oven-on-wheels to make pizza or bake bread. Before I knew it, the local non-profit ski slope asked if we could come over for an event and make pizza, a neighbor/friend asked if we could make pizza at her family reunion, and a local micro-brewery asked if we would be the food vendor for their first anniversary celebration.

At a recent pizza gig, a young woman came up to order and asked if we took credit cards. “No, no cards – cash only, or you could write us a check.” She looked a little dejected. Her family didn’t have cash with them and the checkbook was at home. She started to walk away, so I said, “Hey, just drop a check in the mail when you get home.” She was surprised and pleased at this gesture of trust. Her family ordered a couple of personal pizzas and went on their way. Sure enough, a few days later I got a check in the mail for $16 and a note of thanks for making their day. I was reminded of the reason why I live in an area where people value community and relationships.

Even if she hadn’t come through with sending payment, I don’t think I would have been too upset. My pizza business isn’t about making a killing; it is about being a bridge for celebration and making people happy. That makes me happy, too. Among the more newsworthy announcements at the 2016 Farm Progress Show in Boone, IA, was the This ‘driverless tractor’ () affirms what most every farmer already knows: productivity-enhancing technologies like GPS and telematics (and soon artificial intelligence) is transforming production for all but the niche segment. Now the autonomous control is baked-in! CNH Industrial, parent of Case and New Holland, will offer two versions: one with a traditional cab and one that dispenses with it completely – the latter a not-too-subtle reminder that human labor has been continually displaced by technology in agriculture production for most of the last century. Much more in!

GETTING READY for IRMA The 1955 Frankenstein 950 and a 12.5k Northstar PTO Generator Long time subscriber & regular contributor, Chris Britton lives in Florida. He sent in a photo the other day.part of his Irma preparation. In addition to getting twenty-five 5 gallon buckets of water set up for the animals, Chris set up his, “portable generator.” Chris wrote, “I got it out of south Florida, the previous owner bought it from a muck farm, burried axles deep, running a water pump.

No gauges or generator, running on propane, it was kind of buggered up. A car gas tank was hooked on the hood with.

9N-2N-8N-NAA NEWSLETTER (ISSN 0896-5641) is published quarterly in January, April, July, and October, by; PO Box 275 East Corinth, VT. (802) 685-1299. Periodical Rate Postage Paid at East Corinth,Vermont USA and additional offices. • Rob Rinaldi, Publisher, Editor • Jill Morton, Associate editor • Rowan Sherwood, Mailroom agent • Becky Kinerson, Proofreader • Mark Elliot, webmaster & West Coast HQ honcho • Gerard W. Rinaldi, Pub. Emeritus N-News is not associated with, nor does it receive financial support from, Ford, FNH, or CNH.

They have been, and may continue to be, helpful to requests for information. © 2016 N-News LLC. All Rights Reserved.

BU-302: Series and Parallel Battery Configurations Learn how to arrange batteries to increase voltage or gain higher capacity. Batteries achieve the desired operating voltage by connecting several cells in series; each cell adds its voltage potential to derive at the total terminal voltage. Parallel connection attains higher capacity by adding up the total ampere-hour (Ah).

Some packs may consist of a combination of series and parallel connections. Laptop batteries commonly have four 3.6V Li-ion cells in series to achieve a nominal voltage 14.4V and two in parallel to boost the capacity from 2,400mAh to 4,800mAh. Such a configuration is called 4s2p, meaning four cells in series and two in parallel. Insulating foil between the cells prevents the conductive metallic skin from causing an electrical short.

Most battery chemistries lend themselves to series and parallel connection. It is important to use the same battery type with equal voltage and capacity (Ah) and never to mix different makes and sizes. A weaker cell would cause an imbalance. This is especially critical in a series configuration because a battery is only as strong as the weakest link in the chain.

An analogy is a chain in which the links represent the cells of a battery connected in series (Figure 1). Figure 1: Comparing a battery with a chain. Chain links represent cells in series to increase voltage, doubling a link denotes parallel connection to boost current loading. A weak cell may not fail immediately but will get exhausted more quickly than the strong ones when on a load. On charge, the low cell fills up before the strong ones because there is less to fill and it remains in over-charge longer than the others. On discharge, the weak cell empties first and gets hammered by the stronger brothers. Cells in multi-packs must be matched, especially when used under heavy loads.

Single Cell Applications The single-cell configuration is the simplest battery pack; the cell does not need matching and the protection circuit on a small Li-ion cell can be kept simple. Typical examples are mobile phones and tablets with one 3.60V Li-ion cell.

Other uses of a single cell are wall clocks, which typically use a 1.5V alkaline cell, wristwatches and memory backup, most of which are very low power applications. The nominal cell voltage for a nickel-based battery is 1.2V, alkaline is 1.5V; silver-oxide is 1.6V and lead acid is 2.0V. Primary lithium batteries range between 3.0V and 3.9V.

Li-ion is 3.6V; Li-phosphate is 3.2V and Li-titanate is 2.4V. Li-manganese and other lithium-based systems often use cell voltages of 3.7V and higher. This has less to do with chemistry than promoting a higher watt-hour (Wh), which is made possible with a higher voltage. The argument goes that a low internal cell resistance keeps the voltage high under load. For operational purposes these cells go as 3.6V candidates. (See ) Series Connection Portable equipment needing higher voltages use battery packs with two or more cells connected in series. Figure 2 shows a battery pack with four 3.6V Li-ion cells in series, also known as 4S, to produce 14.4V nominal.

In comparison, a six-cell lead acid string with 2V/cell will generate 12V, and four alkaline with 1.5V/cell will give 6V. Figure 2: S eries connection of four cells (4s). Adding cells in a string increases the voltage; the capacity remains the same. Courtesy of Cadex If you need an odd voltage of, say, 9.50 volts, connect five lead acid, eight NiMH or NiCd, or three Li-ion in series. The end battery voltage does not need to be exact as long as it is higher than what the device specifies. A 12V supply might work in lieu of 9.50V.

Most battery-operated devices can tolerate some over-voltage; the end-of-discharge voltage must be respected, however. High voltage batteries keep the conductor size small. Cordless power tools run on 12V and 18V batteries; high-end models use 24V and 36V.

Most e-bikes come with 36V Li-ion, some are 48V. The car industry wanted to increase the starter battery from 12V (14V) to 36V, better known as 42V, by placing 18 lead acid cells in series. Logistics of changing the electrical components and arcing problems on mechanical switches derailed the move.

Some mild hybrid cars run on 48V Li-ion and use DC-DC conversion to 12V for the electrical system. Starting the engine is often done by a separate 12V lead acid battery. Early ran on a 148V battery; are typically 450–500V. Such a battery needs more than 100 Li-ion cells connected in series. High-voltage batteries require careful, especially when drawing heavy loads or when operating at cold temperatures. With multiple cells connected in a string, the possibility of one cell failing is real and this would cause a failure.

To prevent this from happening, a solid state switch in some large packs bypasses the failing cell to allow continued current flow, albeit at a lower string voltage. Cell matching is a challenge when replacing a faulty cell in an aging pack. A new cell has a higher capacity than the others, causing an imbalance. Welded construction adds to the complexity of the repair, and this is why battery packs are commonly replaced as a unit. High-voltage batteries in electric vehicles, in which a full replacement would be prohibitive, divide the pack into modules, each consisting of a specific number of cells.

If one cell fails, only the affected module is replaced. A slight imbalance might occur if the new module is fitted with new cells. (See.) Figure 3 illustrates a battery pack in which “cell 3” produces only 2.8V instead of the full nominal 3.6V.

With depressed operating voltage, this battery reaches the end-of-discharge point sooner than a normal pack. The voltage collapses and the device turns off with a “Low Battery” message. Figure 3: S eries connection with a faulty cell. Faulty cell 3 lowers the voltage and cuts the equipment off prematurely. Courtesy of Cadex Batteries in drones and remote controls for hobbyist requiring high load current often exhibit an unexpected voltage drop if one cell in a string is weak. Drawing maximum current stresses frail cells, leading to a possible crash.

Reading the voltage after a charge does not identify this anomaly; examining the cell-balance or checking the capacity with a will. Parallel Connection If higher currents are needed and larger cells are not available or do not fit the design constraint, one or more cells can be connected in parallel.

Most battery chemistries allow parallel configurations with little side effect. Figure 4 illustrates four cells connected in parallel in a P4 arrangement.

The nominal voltage of the illustrated pack remains at 3.60V, but the capacity (Ah) and runtime are increased fourfold. Figure 4: Parallel connection of four cells (4p). With parallel cells, capacity in Ah and runtime increases while the voltage stays the same. Courtesy of Cadex A cell that develops high resistance or opens is less critical in a parallel circuit than in a series configuration, but a failing cell will reduce the total load capability. It’s like an engine only firing on three cylinders instead of on all four. An electrical short, on the other hand, is more serious as the faulty cell drains energy from the other cells, causing a fire hazard.

Most so-called electrical shorts are mild and manifest themselves as elevated self-discharge. A total short can occur through reverse polarization or dendrite growth. Large packs often include a fuse that disconnects the failing cell from the parallel circuit if it were to short. Figure 5 illustrates a parallel configuration with one faulty cell. Figure 5: Parallel/connection with one faulty cell. A weak cell will not affect the voltage but provide a low runtime due to reduced capacity.

A shorted cell could cause excessive heat and become a fire hazard. On larger packs a fuse prevents high current by isolating the cell. Courtesy of Cadex Series/parallel Connection The series/parallel configuration shown in Figure 6 enables design flexibility and achieves the desired voltage and current ratings with a standard cell size. The total power is the product of voltage-times-current; four 3.6V (nominal) cells multiplied by 3,400mAh produce 12.24Wh. Four 18650 Energy Cells of 3,400mAh each can be connected in series and parallel as shown to get 7.2V nominal and 12.24Wh. The slim cell allows flexible pack design but a is needed.

Figure 6: S eries / parallel connection of four cells (2s2p). This configuration provides maximum design flexibility. Paralleling the cells helps in voltage management.

Courtesy of Cadex Li-ion lends itself well to series/parallel configurations but the cells need monitoring to stay within voltage and current limits. (ICs) for various cell combinations are available to supervise up to 13 Li-ion cells. Larger packs need custom circuits, and this applies to e-bike batteries, hybrid cars and the Tesla Model 85 that devours over 7000 18650 cells to make up the 90kWh pack. Terminology to describe Series and Parallel Connection The battery industry specifies the number of sells in series first, followed by the cells placed in parallel. An example is 2s2p. With Li-ion, the parallel strings are always made first; the completed parallel units are then placed in series.

Li-ion is a voltage based system that lends itself well for parallel formation. Combining several cells into a parallel and then adding the units serially reduces complexity in terms of voltages control for. Building series strings first and then placing them in in parallel may be more common with NiCd packs to satisfy the chemical shuttle mechanism that balances charge at the top of charge. “2s2p” is common; white papers have been issued that refer to 2p2s when a serial string is paralleled. Safety devices in Series and Parallel Connection Positive Temperature Coefficient Switches (PTC) and Charge Interrupt Devices (CID) protect the battery from overcurrent and excessive pressure. While recommended for safety in a smaller 2- or 3-cell pack with serial and parallel configuration, these protection devices are often being omitted in larger multi-cell batteries, such as those for power tool.

The PTC and CID work as expected to switch of the cell on excessive current and internal cell pressure; however the shutdown occurs in cascade format. While some cells may go offline early, the load current causes excess current on the remaining cells. Such overload condition could lead to a thermal runaway before the remaining safety devices activate. Some cells have built-in PCT and CID; these protection devices can also be added retroactively. The design engineer must be aware than any safety device is subject to failure. In addition, the PTC induces a small internal resistance that reduces the load current.

(See also ) Simple Guidelines for Using Household Primary Batteries • Keep the battery contacts clean. A four-cell configuration has eight contacts and each contact adds resistance (cell to holder and holder to next cell). • Never mix batteries; replace all cells when weak.

The overall performance is only as good as the weakest link in the chain. • Observe polarity. A reversed cell subtracts rather than adds to the cell voltage. • Remove batteries from the equipment when no longer in use to prevent leakage and corrosion.

This is especially important with zinc-carbon primary cells. • Do not store loose cells in a metal box. Place individual cells in small plastic bags to prevent an electrical short. Do not carry loose cells in your pockets. • Keep batteries away from small children.

In addition to being a choking hazard, the current-flow of the battery can ulcerate the stomach wall if swallowed. The battery can also rupture and cause poisoning. (See ) • Do not recharge non-rechargeable batteries; hydrogen buildup can lead to an explosion.

Perform experimental charging only under supervision. Simple Guidelines for Using Secondary Batteries • Observe polarity when charging a secondary cell.

Reversed polarity can cause an electrical short, leading to a hazardous condition. • Remove fully charged batteries from the charger. A consumer charger may not apply the correct trickle charge when fully charged and the cell can overheat. • Charge only at room temperature.

Last updated 2017-07-31 *** Please Read Regarding Comments *** Comments are intended for 'commenting,' an open discussion amongst site visitors. Battery University monitors the comments and understands the importance of expressing perspectives and opinions in a shared forum. However, all communication must be done with the use of appropriate language and the avoidance of spam and discrimination. If you have a suggestion or would like to report an error, please use the ' form or email us at:. We like to hear from you but we cannot answer all inquiries. We recommend posting your question in the comment sections for the Battery University Group (BUG) to share.

Aamir - The voltage would be the lower of the two, as current would flow from the battery with the higher potential to the one with the lower potential. This would in fact “charge” the second battery.

For this reason if you are using non-rechargeable batteries it is important to replace all cells at once. Mike - If the only thing connected to the batteries is the lights, then opening the contacts of the light switch opens your electrical circuit. At that point there’s no current flow and therefore no drain on the battery. If there are other things wired in there that stay on all the time then a disconnect is a good idea. But sounds like you’re okay with tjust the switch. As for the one battery at a time or both at the same time, my answer to Aamir may help If the two batteries are fully charged and at the exact same voltage, then there’s no difference. But if one’s a little lower than the other then some energy will be wasted while the batteries equalize.

It’s not much but if you’re trying to squeeze everything out of the cells as you can, it’s something to think about. In my mind your answer comes down to a matter of convenience vs knowledge If it’s a pain to wire these in then do it once and get it over with.

If not then I’d do it one at a time this way once the first battery’s dead you know you’re on the second battery. Think of it as a primitive fuel gauge. I have a small radio transmitter that sends brief pulses twice a second. It’s in a limited access space. It currently runs on a 300 mah, 3v lithium primary coin cell which gives a lifespan of two years. I need to up the lifespan to 5 years minimum, but I don’t have room to put in a thicker coin cell, nor go to a cylindrical battery. But I do have room to add more 300 mah primary cells.

Theoretically I can put three of the 300mah, 3v coin cells in parallel, and achieve over 5 years of battery life by doing so. Is there any reason that wouldn’t work or any other factor I should take into account? There should be a disclaimer warning that this article is overly simplified and does not account for many problems that can occur in the field. Some of the statements are wrong if taken literally.

“On charge, the low cells fill up before the strong ones” is not true if the low cells have high internal resistance. “most battery-operated devices can tolerate some over-voltage” needs to be more clearly defined - while a few tenths of a volt might not matter, tens of volts could fry things. “A higher voltage has the advantage of keeping the conductor size small” is misapplied: for a particular power output, higher voltages allow smaller current flows which in turn allow smaller conductors (ignoring start-up surges and increasing current draw as batteries lose voltage as they deplete). “Parallel/connection with one faulty cell A weak cell will not affect the voltage” actually the weak cell can draw enough current from the good cells to lower the overall voltage of the connection. “The serial/parallel configuration shown in Figure 5 allows superior design flexibility” but also increases complexities of battery management and system troubleshooting immensely. The article then jumps to tips about household batteries without explaining the difference between primary and secondary batteries, nor this section’s relevance to the previous discussion. I realize that you are attempting to present technical information to a lay audience, but please be careful.

The confusion shown in the comments proves that this article hasn’t achieved its goals. All cells will drop performances after certain cycles of charging and discharging. If you use cells from same produciton lot, it is likely that no particular one single cell will break down while others still working in very good condition, however, It is also likely that each cell will drop performance slightly different as time gone. As a result: 1.

One cell totally fail while others still working properly seldome happen; 2. It is certain that each cell will have slightly different capacity after certain time. As a result, in series will give better engineering result than in parallel. I run 2 interstate 4d deep cycle batteries in parrallel, via, power invertor to power machinery in my work van. Recently the power invertor as well as the batteries, crapped out, i tested the batteries and they were shot. The power invertor was sparking and smoking, so i replaced that. It’s a 2500 watt invertor.

Replaced one battery so far, the other is on order. However the alarm on the invertor goes off immediatley and i’m unable to run machinery. Is keeping the old battery connected in parrallel with the brand new one causing this? I went for six years, no problems then the batteries died(which i expected) the invertor crapped out and now i can’t seem to get it running again. I am interested in this “4S2P, meaning 4 cells are in series and 2 in parallel.” mentioned in the beginning of the article. This is my understanding, please help me fill in the blanks though.

(A) if I run 4x1.2v 1800 mah in series I get 4.8v 1800 mah. (B) if I run 2x1.2v 1800 mah in series I get 2.4v 1800 mah. (C) if I run (A) and (B) in parallel I will get 3600 mah, and I hope 4.8v (?) This idea of doubling the output time without having to double the number of batteries is compelling. Will this be a safe configuration for Ni-MH AA’s? Would I need some “insulating foil”? How would this portion work? I really enjoyed the article, and am looking forward to hearing a response to my query.

I recently purchased a lot of rc helicopters. 12 of them actually. My friends and I are in the process of weekly helicopter wars. Although we can only fly 3 at once it is a lot of fun! Problem is, I am eating up ‘AA’ batteries like crazy. My question is: What is the ac to dc equivalent of 6 AA in series?

I would like to cut out the AAs altogether and use one of my many adapters connected to the + and - terminals on the charger/remote with out damaging the charger/remote and/or the 3.7v 70mAh in the helicopter itself. Any help would save me midnight runs to the drug store to buy AAs.

The clerks must think I’m a Smurf!! Hi Charlie: I would highly recommend trying AA Ni-MH LSD (low self-discharge) rechargeable batteries. I like the Sanyo Eneloop batteries a lot. They are rated for 1500 recharge cycles (that’s a lot of flights!).

I think you might see as much as 4x more flight time as well based on my tests of compact photo flashes. I can’t say for sure if you will get the same performance, but it is definitely worth a try. Keep in mind that they are heavier than most Alkalines, which may be an issue. You can check the specs on various websites.

All the best, Andrew Darlow Editor, The Imaging Buffet http://www.imagingbuffet.com. I do night work in the oil field and am trying to build a battery powered light that I can attach to equipment from job site to job site, and charge while in the truck. A 12-18V, 6W LED will serve my purpose.

I will have AA batteries connected in series to supply approximately 12V. My question is in regards to charging. Can I simply connect the 12V battery pack in parallel to charge the batteries or will the amperage get too high and cause the batteries to explode?

Could I avoid such circumstances by making a battery pack to supply a higher voltage, such as an 18V Li ION or NiMH battery pack. They would never reach an over-voltage during charge, but would they still be subjected to too high an amperage? I realize that they would never reach a full charge, but since it is simply a light that requires 12V I don’t think that would matter would it? Hi Bill: I personally would just buy AA or AAA LSD NiMH batteries (Eneloop brand are my favorite, though there are others), and a 12v or 120v plug-in charger for them to recharge (they need about 3-5 hours to recharge - avoid 30 min and 1-2 hr chargers since they will limit the life of the batteries). Then charge them in sets and put 4 AA’s or 3 AAA’s in a flashlight (depending on model) like this one from Harbor Freight (you can buy 3-4 of them and have a huge amt. The light is very bright.

Or this one sold on Amazon.com that takes 3 D cells: or this lantern: You can get convertors from D’s that use AA’s: Rechargeable D cells have about 5-10 times the capacity (mAh) of AA’s, so check the est. Run time with alkalines and divide by about 5-10 to determine how many hours you will get from them. Hope that helps, Andrew Andrew Darlow Editor, The Imaging Buffet http://www.imagingbuffet.com. I have a battery that is totally screwed!

It’s a 4CGR18650A2-MSL as seen here - I’m considering doing a rebuild but i’m confused about the voltage per cell. Everywhere seems to have 3.7v cells but if it’s only a 14.8V battery, surely i only need 1.2v cells each? Which way do i go? Where do i turn? What would you suggest i do if i was to do a rebuild?!! As you may have guessed, i’m a bit new to all of this so any assistance you can provide me is really welcome and i’m thankful for it Many thanks in advance, Steve.

I too am looking to construct an extended range battery pack, but for my 48volt Super Elite 1000 scooter. I have 28 brand new lithium ion laptop batteries. I am still trying to decide how many packs to make and of what capacity each. The laptop bats. Are 11.1 volts and 6.6 amp hours apiece. The scooter comes stock with one 48 volt/ 12 amp hour bat. That gives me about 12-15 mile range and takes 6 hours to charge.

The laptop batteries are stated to have 11.1 volts, but are they likely 14.4 volts in actuality? This information is important as it will help me to decide whether to link 4 of them in series(bringing the pack to 44.4 volts and under the required 48 volts, potentially) or linking 5 of them in series(bringing the pack to 55.5 volts and safely within range of the stock battery voltage without being under). If they are actually 14.4 volts though——4 in series would more than suffice without being too high in voltage @ around about 58.4 volts(which is what the charger puts out,- at 2 amps. 5 bats linked @ 14.4 volts would be too high a voltage to be fully charged by the charger, I think, but would it still put out the higher voltage but with less overall capacity?

That would likely cause me to waste battery potential while adding excess weight to the scooter.—-OR——at worst case scenario, damage the electronics and/or the 1000 watt motor due to excessive voltage. Maybe it is time for me to own a multimeter. I loved finding this site!! Hello, i want to make a battery pack from several mobile batteries using Li-Ion 3.7V for my RC CAR that uses 8 AA 1.5v cells.

Actully i have few mobile batteries which is of no use so i thought to use it in my RC car. Please help me with this problems, 1)how i should connect those batteries with each other (parallel or in series?) 2)I also have a ac / dc universal adaptor so can i use it for charging, if yes then tell me which current should i use ac or dc?

And my rc car has a charging port in which my adaptor fits perfectly. Please help me with this i shall be really thankfull to you=).

A lot of people asked questions, but where are their answers? I was waiting for the question to be answered about the 80AH and 100AH batteries in parrallel. I have the same problem, or no problem. I bought for my new solar system all the batteries in the city (Nicaragua has little to choose from in DEEP CYCLE battereis), 6 were 105 AH and 2 were 60 AH. That’s all they had, so I bought them thinking that they are all 12 V just different hours of output. I’ve been told that “IN SERIES” they would burn up the smaller “60 AH” during charging, but “in parallel” it doesn’t matter.

I don’t need 24V so only in parrallel would this combo help me, but I would feel better knowing from a different source, because the next time they get batteries, it could be a 200 AH, which I would prefer, but I don’t want to throw away or just inventory the NEW but smaller ones I’ve already purchased, that’s over a $1000 in this 3rd world country. @nova & andrew: Regarding the electric field, if you are asking whether the electric field inside the batteries increase then i don’t think so, cause the voltage diff across the terminals of each cell remains the same (actually it will change slightly depending upon the voltage drop across the internal resistances of the cells). Maybe smne from chemistry background can comment about this better, regarding what actually goes on inside the cell. As far the overall circuitry is concerned, then yeah the electric field inside the conductor carrying the current, does indeed increase. This is mainly due to the increase in small amount of charge that gets deposited near the surface of the conductors, which in turn guides the flow of the electrons through it.

Here are so many new things to learn and consider. I have just wired up many car and mower batteries (all 12 V, in parallels) for lightening up the house with LED, and also ventilation fans - and now I see that the current increases twice for each added battery. Question is; Will this be bad for the LED lamps and ventilation fans? But this is very interesting, and I understand I have a lot to learn; I have always resorted to manuals before as the last resort, but I see now that is a good idea to use manuals/advices in the first place. Wow some people have no clue Pranabesh - if you understand what an ampere/hour is then you’ll understand what 7.2Ah means.

Your batteries can supply upto 7.2A for 1hr. Halve the current needed to double the life of the battery - 3.6A for 2 hrs, 360mA for 20hrs etc.

Johan - you should be restricting the current flowing through the LEDs, not the voltage across it. Just ensure your resistors are sufficient value to limit the current to the maximum allowed for the LEDs you’re using. I’d also say use 4x batteries for greater capacity (life) and adjust your resistor values to only allow for example 20mA to flow through the LEDs for your 6V supply. Solarguy - that sound’s risky like you may end up shorting a car battery - this is a massive no no as a car battery can flash fry any size spanner you have in your tool box, even the big ones!

Yes, I did say flash fry and that’s if you’re luckyif you’re unlucky, it’ll just explode in your face! I’ll respond to more later. What’s really scary about the serious ignorance shown in many of these comments is not the level of ignorance itself which is understandable, but that nobody seems to know how much they don’t know. People have lost the ability to know when they are out of their depth.

Is it the internet, does everyone think they can do anything? It’s a big worry and I sympathise with those who lay the blame with the post-modernist idea that ‘everyone is equal, so everyone’s opinion is worth as much as anyone else’s regardless of their training, experience or skill’. Once upon a time people knew that they didn’t know about electronics or electrical theory, now everyone just thinks they know enough apart from a few questions they might need to put on the internet. Most of the questioners here should not touch a battery until they’ve increased their knowledge a great deal. That’s what schools, universities and books are for. Dear Julian I thought this site was Called battery academy Not electricians ego place. Do you honestly think that people shouldnt be allowed to put a battery and a led together without proper education?

People like me Who has a good job and no intentions to start school all over again needs a hobby. I can and will do that with succes after a while, with or without guys like you. Let people who knows and whants to share knowledge post comments in forums. May i remind you about Steve Jobs (r.i.p) WHO dropped out of school and started experimenting. I Would say he succeded fairly well. Before commenting on My bad language skulle I am from Sweden.

Any comments about that I Would prefer in Swedish (yes There are schools for that as well My friend) best regards Johan. I agree with you - I’ve no problem with people improving their skills and knowledge at all of asking questions on forums, which is why I mentioned books. What I’m saying is that people do need to understand the limits of what they know and choose what they attempt to match their capability.

Many of the questions here show people who are so far out of their depth they represent a danger to themselves and others not to mention to the gear they are playing with. Also if you don’t know what you don’t know you can’t learn properly. We should all learn and experiment, but we should also understand and respect what we don’t know. Johan - A 555 timer or some form of PWM signal to control the LEDs will reduce heat as the LED won’t be on 100% of the timethat said, it won’t be any brighter either as it’s not on 100% of the time.

Perhaps experiment with duty cycles eg 70% on/30%off timing. That might give you sufficient light output without overheating.

Maybe even 90/10 will workhard to say without experimenting. Julian - I fully agree that many people don’t know they’re out of their depth but that said, there’s only one way to learn. I’m always happy to help where I can but with something dangerous, I will make sure they know the risks like my comment on a car battery above. I’ve seen a 13mm spanner vanish into a cloud of smoke and sparks. There wasn’t much left of the car battery either. Abdul - Regardless of the what you measured, you should never have 2 batteries of differing voltages in series or parallel. Putting a 10v in parallel with a 5v will effectively force current backwards into the 5v battery risking leaking or possibly it could blow up (chemical composition dependant).

There’s a reason on every single pack of batteries and battery powered equipment that they state “never mix 2 different type of batteries or mix new with old” as it’s dangerous to your product and mostly to your person. Using power supplies isn’t the same as using batteries for your information as they probably have reverse voltage diode protectionsomething a battery doesn’t, hence why you measured 10V. Use batteries and you’ll see around 7-8v (at a guess).as well as seeing the 5v battery heat up and leak due to the 10v battery effectively charging it. Stick with the same batteries, same type and same voltage to ensure safety and correct operation.

I hope that helps. 30v x 8 = 240v so you’d want 8 batteries in series for one bank. 16 batteries will give you two banks of 8. Simply put those 2 banks of series batteries in parallel with each other.

Maillist King Software Download. I’ll try and show it in a diagramB is the battery, - is a series connection, [ and ] are parallel connections. [B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B] terminal 1——-[ ]——-terminal 2 [B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B] That’s the most efficient method of achieving a 240V output across terminals 1 and 2. The current required (70A) will simply dictate the duration the batteries will last foralthough if it’s for an electric vehicle, you won’t be using it until the batteries are flat so working out the useful duration might be easiest by simply building and testing it.

I hope that’s clear enough. Text based diagrams are’t great. Pos to Pos, Neg to Neg is how to connect a second battery in parallel, which is what you’d want.

However, it’s only worth doing ideally if the batteries are of the same manufacturer and modelbut same ratings will suffice providing it’s in good conditionassuming the original is also in good condition. Connecting a new battery in parallel with an old one won’t damage anything but it will hide the true performance of either battery ie you may not realise one of your batteries needs replacing as the other will still supply power. Id say connect them up as intended but it might be worth taking them off one at a time say once a year and charge them on a separate mains powered charger with a battery quality/health indicator so you know which battery is going strong and which is failing. I have few questions, kindly help 1. What is the ideal way of discharging two Li-ion batteries connected in series?

Is it okay if I do it with resistor bank or a constant current source is required. I tried discharging batteries (two batteries connected in series) through resistor bank (series combination of four 10 ohm, 5W resistor). Initial voltage on the batteries was 4.15v and 4.18v respectively. After discharging it for two hours, I noticed that one batteries are showing unequal voltage 3.5v and 2.5v respectively. What can be possible reasons behind this? 1: I can’t answer for sure but I don’t see any problem with using a resister network. 2: It sounds to me like one of those 2 li-ion batteries isn’t in as good a condition as the other, hence it’s lower post-drain voltage.

I only reply to this site when i’m at work. I don’t work weekendsapologies. Mixing up batteries in series and parallel can be very risky. It’s often considered a better method to stick with either series or parallel and ensure one of your requirements is more than you need. SImply wiring 4x 1.2v in parallel will give you the 4.8v you need. As each of them is 2500 mAh, your total will capacity will be greater than 5000mAh meaning the light will stay on longer. It’s never an issue to have more capacity than you need as the device you’re powering will simply last longer.

As 4.8v is achieved and greater capacityit’s a win-win situation. Any questions? Check me on this please: both rows of serial connected batteries (4 per row outputting 4.8V each row of 4, that is 1.2+1.2+1.2+1.2=4.8V) and the last + of each row (at that 4.8V output) gets connected together to make the final positive pole (also totaling 4.8V), while the last - of each row get connected together to make the final negative pole? Or do I cross-connect either row & if so, how? Just not understanding the - connector and + connector you show in the middle between the 2 rows. Sorry for being dense.

Love the site. You’re correct in the first instance. Make a 4.8v “battery” by wiring 4x 1.2v in series. Take each 4.8v “battery” and connect the end terminals of the same polarity together, + and +, - and. Don’t cross connect any of the middle connections as that will mess things up.

The - and + connector I showed above was a poor attempt at showing the “master” connections where one bank of series batteries is connected to the next bank of series batteries but only at the endsnot in the middle. Showing a circuit diagram using just text isn’t easy Alsoit’s not my siteI just help where I can. I also found it useful and full of good information. I read through this list of questions and decided to start helping those who need help/guidance etc. Batteries can be dangerous if you don’t know what you’re doing.

Admittedly it’s only really big lead acid batteries that pose a real threat but certain Li-ion ones can explode if mistreated. AnywayI hope this time that makes sense. Ok, you’ve got my curiosity up now Daniel.

Can you tell me if any of these designs has any advantage over the others with respect to battery life, and also if the bottom figure calcs are correct.ie 7500mah? 4S2P 4.8V +{===]-+{===]-+{===]-+{===]- @2500ma cell capacity=5000 total +{===]-+{===]-+{===]-+{===]- 4S4P 4.8V +{===]- +{===]- +{===]- +{===]- @2500ma cell capacity=5000 total +{===]- +{===]- +{===]- +{===]- 4S3P 4.8V +{===]-+{===]-+{===] +{===]- @2500ma cell capacity=7500 total +{===]- +{===]- . Good morning. Your assumption is correct.

The top config is 2 parallel connections, at each end of the batteries in series (at #1 and #4 battery ends)and there are 2 rows of 4 batteries, with each row connected in series. The 2nd config is 4 parallel connections, at each battery end, also 2 rows of 4 batteries, each row connected in series, and of course the 3rd image is 3 parallel connections with 3 batteries connected across their + and - terminals., and a single row of serial connected batteries to make 4.8V.

The designations don’t mean much really, its the way they are connected I’d like to get feedback on please if you can. Are there pros and cons or is one a standout? Hope this clears up my examples.

Firstly the last config isn’t a good idea. If you have 3 batteries in parallel and force that through any in seriesthe series batteries will either restrict the maximum current flow or worseyou could be charging the series batteries which could cause them to fail/leak/explode. It’s NEVER a good idea to have any batteries in series with a parallel set. Here’s my suggestionwhich may be what i’ve already said above You need 4.8Vso connect 4x 1.2v in series to achieve that. Once you’ve got your required voltagestack enough of those series groups in parallel to achieve your current requirement. 2 rows will do but a 3rd/4th will provide a greater current capacity.

Please help me! I build a NI-MH battery pack as follows.8x AA 1.2v 2500mAh in series so is 12v 2500mAh, and I have 4 of these in parallel so is must be 12v 10000mAh! If I am right and I discharge it with 4500mA is must be run at least 2hour! I did monitoring the voltage and is cascading down nice and slowly, but after 1 hour one cell is starting warming up and shorting out the other battery’s! What is happening??? I changed the faulty cell and test it againbut the replaced cell is blow out again, but only that battery pack from the 4 is having the problem every time! I changed the wiring and the cells again, but the same result!

Is must be work.no? What can be a problem? Thanks Zoltan. This problem is mentioned several times above.

Firstly8x 1.2V isn’t 12V. 10x 1.2V is 12V Heres my suggestion: You want 12V and 10,000mAh correct? I’d use 10x 1.2V in series to give 12V. I’d then take 4 sets of these and wire them in parallel to maintain 12V but increasing your mAh capacity to your requirements. ONLY CONNECT THE FIRST AND LAST OF EACH SET TO THE PARALLEL CONFIGDO NOT CONNECT INTERMEDIATE BATTERIES IN PARALLEL!

Also ensure every one of the batteries you’re using is of the same quality as each other.ideally all brand new. The one cell warming up could be because it’s more “used” than the others and no longer has its rated 2500mAh capacity.it gets warm because the other batteries are effectively charging it. This may all occur because you’re running a 12V system from 9.6V (8x 1.2V) putting extra stress on the batteries and potentially pulling more current than expected which in turn would cause even more stress on the batteries. I hope something I mentioned will help you but be aware, if a Ni-MH battery gets hot, it can explode if you’re unlucky and just leak nasty chemicals if you;re lucky.

Thanks Daniel, Sorry I just miss type it! I want it to say 10aa in series and 4x 10 parallel! Sorry to confuse you with the numbers! The battery’s is all brand new from maplin! I checked the data seen of the battery and the diagram showing the discharging algorithm, what is allowed me to discharge the 2500mAh battery even with 5000mA for 1/2hour!

What is say to, must be fast charged the battery for this capacity! Can be a slow charge creating uneven charged cell in the packs and putting that cell for a big stress a make it die? Thanks Zoltan. I’m not certain what the problem is thenit sounds like everything is balanced. I’m not certain what’s causing one cell to become weak but over stressing a battery will certainly show the problems you have. I’d look very closely at the wiring around that particular cell. Perhaps also try your experiment at 2500mAh for 4 hrsIt may be that a slower discharge doesn’t show the problems indicating that a fast discharge is causing the issues.

Alternativelythe battery voltage when half the current capacity has been used won’t still be 1.2Vhence why after 1hr you’re seeing problems. If you need 4500mA for 2hrs minimumit may be beneficial to have 5 sets in parallel, not 4.

An increased current capacity will have less of an effect on the voltage and also saves you from deep cycling the batteriessomething I’m not certain how NI-MH react to. Doc: I assume you want to run house lighting etc from 12V and not anything higher?

If so, you want to wire the batteries in parallel, + to +, - to. If running them in series, it’s far less forgiving if the capacities are different. If you need a higher DC voltage than 12V, series is the only real option and just make sure your batteries are all the same capacity, ideally the same manufacturer/model. Neel: There won’t be a backflow if the first is deadbut the circuit will try to charge it and balance them out. This is not desirable though. Dano: Adding 6V to an already 24V supply will give you 30V. Why add more if you need 24V and have 24V?

Sorry for my confusion. Also, ideally the batteries should be the same voltage/capacity as well but this isn’t as critical for parallel connections. What am I missing?

I soldered a 20 gauge copper wire across the positive terminals of two 1.5V, 2.0 amp AA batteries from the same package and a wire across the negative terminals of the same batteries for a parallel configuaration. The voltage is 1.5 but the amperage is only 2.5. I thought the amperage should approach 4.0. It looks to me like I’ve introduced some serious resistance in this circuit.

Is it possible the solder I used is adding significant resistance? Would 18 gauge wire make a noticable increase in the amperage? Thanks in advance for any ideas you can offer. Many year’s ago, I took my parent’s mobile, “bag” phone on a school trip. Though it was made for a cigarette lighter plug putting out 12V (14v?) I found that it would turn on with a 9V battery.

(I guess it was enough to power things.) So knowing that I would need more amperage, I remember creating a rather large bank of parallel 9V batteries. (I recall using pieces of decent-guage wire run across the leads and holding everything in place with electrical tape.) The bag sat on the bus all day long and when I got back to it at the end of the day, the 9V battery pack, which I purposely left disconnected from the phone, was EXTREMELY HOT! (I remember being very alarmed, thinking that I could have blown up our bus or something) and ripped the battery pack apart immediately. What had occurred to me was that though the batteries were in parallel, one or more of them was letting the electricity pass through causing a closed circuit (short) and they heated up.

It always stuck in my mind that though parallel batteries would increase amperage and allow a device to work, the pack itself would dischage and heat up if left alone because it would self-short out through the cells. However, there are plenty of battery packs (and this article) that cotradict my new belief.So I wonder why did this pack heat up and short out?

Was it a bad 9V battery ot two in the pack? Can anyone share some thoughts onto why this might have happened? Thank you very much! Thanks for the replies! When it first happened, I thought that despite the battery having polarity, it still may have allowed some electricity to flow in the opposite direction, creating a “closed cicuit” (For instance, I knew that if you had series cells and placed one backwards, the voltage would drop but the bulk of the electricity would continue to flow). The first time I started wondering what really happened was later when I bought an Energizer flash light that had 2 “barrels” for batteries 4 AA’s in each barrel - the 2 barrels in parallel (obviously to make the light last longer). I wondered why those batteries didn’t get hot like mine did.

I had chalked it up to a theory that the switch must have been DT disconnected the batteries from each other as well as the bulb when turned off. Of course, I’ve encountered several battery packs with parallel cells, since, so my mind always went back to this incident and why it happened. Remembering things pretty well (it was like 15 years ago!) I’m pretty sure none of the batteries were backwards- they were standard Duracell 9V batteries. I just lined them up, ran wires across the tops of the terminal clips. Myr first thought when I found the untouchable pack was that one of my leads (or perhaps 2) was inadvertenly touching the body of the battery, causing a short. I kinda remember looking for this and not seeing it, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t overlook it. So inconclusion, if there are no defects, you SHOULD be able to create a higher-amperage battery pack by simply putting cells in parallel and NOT get hot, drained batteries?

And if you did have one slightly weaker cell, does it stand to reason that the other cells may deplete somewhat, as shown above (though that bad cell), but once all the cells “equalize” there should no longer be any drain? Or would one weak cell always kill a parallel battery pack? Thanks again for your input! Jay - I wasn’t suggesting you were wrong, I was just trying to figure out the possibilities. A single dodgy battery in a set of parallel batteries “shouldn’t” cause any issues in theory. In practise this isn’t always the case. What you say is right in that the batteries should equalise out but to have that heating effect you saw, something must have been wrong.

My only other thought is that you may have had something in your bag which may have shorted the connectoralthough you’d most likely see melting of wires etc, something you didn’t mention above so I don’t know if this happened or not. Was it a hot day? Was the battery pack maybe resting on the floor above the exhaust or something?

Other than that, i’m at a loss for ideas. Hey Daniel, I didn’t think you were suggesting I was wrong Anything is possible I have always been into electroncis, so my initial thought went immediately to the obvious - musthave shorted the batteries. I just remember not finding a short so I was perplexed. (Obviously I have been losing sleep over this for 15 years!

Ha ha - actually I just happened to find this site yesterday and thought I’d pose the question.) Knowng that the batteries SHOULD have been OK in parallel, I am going to have to assume that there was a short that I didn’t notice. It was certinaly not the temperature of the bus or anything I remember these batteries were literally too hot to touch. (I remember that I really was kinda stressed over it - thinking that I could have inadvertenly set the bus on fire or something - oops. - Glad I just had a dead battery pack and a useless “Bag Phone”) Thank you again for your input. M.Sohail - Connecting 2 batteries together of differing voltages, as mentioned in several places above, isn’t a good idea. All details as to why you shouldn’t do it can be found in the above articles.

Michael - I’m intrigued by your request but I have no idea which country that mobile number is for. I’ll post one of my email addresses here for you to contact me directly on. Emc_danny@hotmail.com NOTICE TO OTHERS - PLEASE DON’T CONTACT ME VIA MY EMAIL FOR QUESTIONS WHICH SHOULD BE ASKED ON THIS PAGE. I WILL NOT RESPOND.

Goodwin - that depends on the voltage of your batteries as well as current capacity. If you can tell me what batteries you want to use, I can point you in the right direction.

Manuel - Keepiong the individual protection circuit shouldn’t be a problem. I may be you’re taking too much current or not charging them properly if it’s “inflating and damaged”. I’d look into how you’re using the batteries and see why they may be overheating and warping. Maybe also check the protection circuits to ensure they’ve not failed. I purchased a 1000 lumens led bulb for a radio controlled airplane.

When I hook the bulb up directly to two, non-rechargeable, 123a lithium batteries, the light shines brightly for a minute or two, and then the batteries discharge to a really weak state. Im totally new to battery power and electronics. Can someone tell me why the batteries work fine in a flashlight, but drain drastically when hooked directly to a 1000 lumens led bulb? Please reply to: rjgillcorp@yahoo.com.

I really need the help. Best regardsthank you. You’re looking at it the wrong way. The current output of a charger dictates how long a battery will take to charge. The current capacity of a battery (ampere/hours) dictates how long said battery will last for with a given current being drawn from it.

If a charger had a greater current capability than the battery it was charging, the battery would.at a guessexplode. It’s like forcing 300 litres of water through a pipe in 30s, yet the pipe can only carry 200 litres in 30s. Any more and it goes bang. To be perfectly honest and I mean this with all due respect, this is a primary school question. So as a matter of personal safety, I suggest you learn the basics of electricity before blowing something up and injuring yourself.

I have a science team parallel wiring 2 sets of 10lights christmas lights which ran off 2 C batteries each and 4 small lights which run off 2 AA each all to one switch and one battery. They wired it and it worked. They used a 12v battery and after turning the lights on and off several times during the course of 10 minutes only one light worked.

They checked them and they had all burned out but that one. Each bulb was dark. They have decided the battery was two powerful but do not know what type of battery to use. Can anyone give us any information.

Hi Mary, Considering that the original light strands ran off of 2 C Batteries, and the other set off 2 AA batteries, I am assuming that bulbs are designed for 3 Volts. (As you found out, 12v is way too much.) If they are wired the way I have seen battery-powered Christmas lights wired in the past, each light socket is wired in Parallel. Since you are simply adding more lights in Parallel, your voltage requirement is still only 3 Volts.

It is the AMPERAGE (and not the voltage) that needs to be increased in order to supply power to all of the lights. As I do not know the wattage of the bulbs, I am going to guess and say that 2 D batteries might do the trick (D’s have the same Voltage but more Amperage than C’s and AA’s). They will likely light all of the strands (after you replace all the dead bulbs) but I can’t say for how long.

If they do not power the lights for a long-enough period of time, you might consider wiring multiple groups of 2 D batteries in PARALLEL. (Again, the goal is to keep the Voltage at 3 Volts and increase the Amperage) I hope this helps. 1st way: Just connect the 12 volt winch to one 12 volt battery.

2nd better way: buy a 24 volt input to 12 volt output transformer. Obviously connect the input to both batteries and connect the 12 volt output to the 12 volt winch.

3rd way: check your cigarette lighter voltage. There is a good chance your truck already has a transformer that reduces the voltage to accessories such as the cigarette lighter and the 12 volt winch could be plugged into the cigarette lighter. (use a volt meter to make sure which is the plus and minus output of the lighter if this is necessary for your 12 volt winch) Truck stores and Fry’s Electronics type stores should sell transformers and wiring adapters for the lighter.

Always keep something plugged into your cigarette lighter so you will not be tempted to smoke:-). To begin with you do not have 3 batteries - you have 3 cells. When you connect your cells together then you have a battery. You describe connecting 3 cells in parallel and 1 cell in series. This makes no sense.

Do you have 4 cells? Even if you have 4 cells your connections make no sense. When you connect cells together in parallel the voltage remains the same but amperage increases. When cells are connected together in series the voltage goes up but the amperage remains the same. There seems to be a difficulty on this site understanding that any cells or any groups of cells (batteries) you want to connect in parallel or series MUST BE ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL! NO, do NOT connect 3 cells together in parallel and then add 2 cell in series. In your case it sounds like you want to connect 3 identical cells together in parallel but then connect 2 of the cells together in series.

You will be connecting 7.4 volts (3.7v x 2) volts to 1 cell of 3.7 volts. What the hell are you thinking!? 2 IDENTICAL cells in parallel (3.7 volts - 1 battery) could be connected to 2 IDENTICAL cells in parallel (3.7 volts - 1 battery) in series to create ONE battery of 4 cells equaling 7.4 volts. OR The two 3.7 volt batteries could be connected together in parallel to make ONE 4 cell 3.7 volt battery.

I have a scenario that I am wondering about. If you have 2 batteries that are supposed to be 12v, but one of them is actually 12.5v and the other one is 11.5v. You connect them in parallel, so that there is a 1v difference between the two. Would the 12.5v battery discharge to 11.5v through the internal resistance of the other battery? Carrying on that thought, the following scenario: the voltages of 2 batteries in parallell are identical but the discharge rates are different and they are being used, so that one voltage decreases faster than the other voltageand then would the theoretical 2-voltage discharge problem appear againso I am thinking that connecting up batteries in parallel causes inefficiencies because it causes the combination’s voltage to lower to the value of the lowest battery? It depend on what type of battery you are talking about.

But for 2 battery with different potential connect in parallel, current will flow from the higher potential to the lower potential. You may want to check the internal ESR rating of both of the battery and the maximum Current allow for the cell.

Another way is to discharge both of the cell to the same voltage level and charge them up together. Do you mean the amount of current draw from each cell? The compensation will actually ensure both cell will reach 0% soc at the same time(if they are the same type of battery). Hi all, I am looking for some advice I’ve been designing a portable power pack to use for an application I need. I want the pack to be based on a 12V battery, have a 5V USB charger built in, a power inverter built in and direct connection to the 12V available I plan to build these into “road-case” style cases.

I want to build between 4 and 8 of these setups. (I realize that I could buy something similar off-the-shelf, but what fun would that be?) Ideally, I would like to have one charger that can charge half or all of these at the same time. (Not unlike a charging rack for portable radios or on-premise pagers or something.) I’ve been learning a lot about battery chemistries I’m leaning towards SLA, but NiCad or NiMh are close second choices. I’m thinking SLA because they are cheaper, and can sit longer between uses (these won’t be used that regularly) but I think I would need larger batteries because of the discharge curve depending on the draw. NiMh would be my second choice, because they (from what I understand) can give more of their capacity at higher current draw than equivalent SLA – but they discharge on their own if not charged regularly. NiCad would be my third choice mainly because they are similar-enough to NiMh, and cheaper. Their memory effect, however may be a problem.

(in the long run, I think NiMh would still be a better investment than NiCad). Charging: As I said, I would ideally like to have a single charging unit for all 4 or 8 setups. But with all the research I am doing, I am nervous about which battery-type would be best for this purpose and if it would be safe to do it. I have owned paging devices in the past that had really simple charging racks.

– Each pager had a dual-AAA-sized NiCad pack inside and the charging rack contained a simple circuit board with 8 sets of terminals in parallel (with no other circuitry in line). Charger was an external power-supply type. Multiple racks could be strung together with jumper wires – in parallel.

That design is basically what I want to create; but with all that I am reading, I am worried parallel charging higher amperage batteries (looking at 2.5 Amps for each setup) could be dangerous and / or damage some of the packs. My latest brain storm is to build a charger circuit into each box and simply connect them in parallel to an external “power supply” (I would like to input low-voltage for the power supply I prefer not to have any live AC inside the box – save for the inverter, but that would be a self-contained unit.) – This will, of course add some cost and complexity to my project. Can anyone offer advice on the following: A) What batteries sound most ideal considering what I’ve laid out? B) Is parallel charging doable for this design without building in individual charging circuits?

C) If I can parallel charge the batteries, would picking a charger be as simple as finding one that could charge the total amperage (say 2.5 Amps x 4 setups) in a given amount of time? (I’m fine with overnight recharging.) (Example: 10 Amps total per rack use a 1amp charger to charge the group in 10 hours – ignoring inefficiencies for now.) Furthermore, would this charger, if only charging, say one setup at a time, charge it faster or over-charge? (Can I find a smart charger that can adjust its output based on the battery pack draw?) Thanks in advance for the advice! Getting 6Volt and 12Volt at the same time is not that difficult The batteries can be wired in series. Your 6Volt system will connect to one terminal of one battery and tap into the connection between both batteries. The 12Volt GPS unit (use an inline fuse) can be connected to the positive terminal on one battery and the negative terminal on the other. (I would make sure that your ground (negative) is the common connection though I am fairly sure that a boat does not use a chassis ground like a car, there is a high likelihood that somewhere along the line the grounds may be connected together.

CHARGING, however, would be the problem If your boat’s other systems will be running off only one of the 6V batteries, that battery will discharge faster than the other which is only being used for 1/2 of the GPS’s power. If the boat has an onboard charging system (alternator, etc.) you could not charge both batteries at the same time.

(even If it were a 12Volt charging system, you would have an issue with one battery being charged more or less than the other.) If you plan to remove the batteries and charge them separately as 6 Volt batteries, you would be OK. I saw this question asked twice but no specific answer. Again, can batteries of equal voltage but of different amperage be safely connected in parallel??? And if yes, will the total amperage be cumulative or will it defaulf to the lowest denomination: I.E.

Three 12v/32A batteries with two 12v/35Ah batteries all in parallel (3 x 32Ah) + (2 x 35Ah) = 96Ah + 70Ah = 166Ah total output?? My current situation: three 12v/32Ah battery bank, all in parallel. Charged by one 100watts, 17.5v/6.5amps solar pannel & a 12v/25amp charge controller. Trying to accomplish: add two 12v/35Ah batteries all in parallel to current bank (vendor did not have 32Ah batteries avail) Add one 100watts, 17.5v/6.5amps solar pannel also in parallel with current pannel & the same 12v/25amps charge controller.

A reply will be greatly appreciated, either in this very educational website or to my email: fm1950@peoplepc.com. To anyone out there asking if you can connect three 12v batteries to make 24v it most certainly can be done if the first and second cell are connected in parallel and then the second cell is connected in series to the third cell. The first and second cell will act as one cell of equal voltage and raising the amperage. When cell two and three are connected cell one and two were already one cell there for the series connection did not know the difference. If this could not be done then there is no way large batteries could be ran in series seeing as some large batteries are only two series connected in parallel. I have been running a set up like this for five years and have had no problem at all.

Running cells together in this manner would not be for the begginer however. One thing that is not covered is that in a series string the battery with the lowest capacity will obviousally fall in voltage first but then if the load current continues the voltage on the cell will fall to 0V and will reverse so it will attempt to charge in the ‘wrong’ direction which causes it even more harm. ( To show this clearly replace the failed cell with a resistor and then draw the voltages across it and the adjacent cell). This is why you have to be very careful on how low a voltage you discharge a series battery too. The higher the voltage of the battery the more difficult it is to detect the first cell going flat. Vaiju - You are looking at a very dangerous, very expensive technology.

A 40MWh installation was operated at the Chino substation near Los Angeles from 1987 onwards. Eight strings, each of 1032 submarine-type battery cells rated at 3250 A-h, connected via 18 pulse inverters, transformers, to the grid, to perform load-leveling. My company subcontracted to Exide to design, manufacture the automatic watering, gas filtering, flame arrestor equipment. Personnel were locked out of the battery room when the battery was on charge. The battery delivered 3000 deep cycles. Vaiju - It appears you are talking about 200 megawatts.

You cannot simply connect cells in series until you reach a voltage to match 11 kilovolts, three phase. You can go up to 2,500 volts DC safely. You are obliged to use transformers that can provide at least 24 pulse inverter operation to keep the harmonic distortion down. If W=VI, then 200,000,000 = 2,500 X I, therefore I = 80,000 amps.

There are no cells that can deliver 80,000 amps. You might need more than USD100 million to build this thing.

Hi, The scenario which I’ll explain is not a real one but I want to know that can we do this or not??? Suppose we have 6 cells which specification of them are as follow: two of them have 1.2v and 200mA (big cells) and four of them have.6v and 100mA (small cells) characteristics. I want to connect two of small cells in serial then connect with one of the big cells in parallel to form a bank cell with 1.2v and 300mA. In this manner we have two such banks. Now I want to connect two banks in serial to form a battery with 2.4v and 300mA.

Now I want to know is it possible to have such a connection??? In other words I want to know can we connect different cells in serial to have a bigger cell then connect them in parallel to have a cell bank with the requested current and finally serially connect them to form a battery with requested voltage and current. Shelby and others - you can think of a batteries like this:imagine them as kegs of beer, and whatever you connect to it, uses some of that beer. Now VOLTAGE is how fast the beer wants to come out of a particular keg.

If you pump it up, you increase the Volts, and the beer comes out faster. And AMPERAGE is how wide the keg and nozzle are. So if one could stack kegs on top of one another (in series), then their speeds add.

It doesn’t matter what the individual speeds are, they always add. But their widths do not - the narrowest one (lowest Amps) has less beer in it, so as you draw from the series, the small one will empty first - and the other batteries will “push” more beer into that one to keep the flow going - possibly in the reverse direction - which is very bad. And if you could set kegs of differing speeds next to each other and tap them all with one tap (parallel), then you ruin into the opposite problem - the “faster” ones will be spewing beer into any slower ones - until all equalize at some identical speed. Here, it doesn’t matter how wide any of them are; they all are the same speed. So their widths add here, and the speed equalizes. So in summary In series, battery Volts ADD. Keep the AMPS the same for each battery.

In parallel, battery Amps ADD. Keep the VOLTS the same for each battery. So Santosh, no you can’t connect a 55V and 40V supply in parallel. The 50V one will try to push electricity into the 40V one, possibly damaging it. If it did work at all, you’d see something less than 50V but more than 40V reaching the CD player. WowI can’t believe how long this thread has been going on. Here is my issue.

I have a 110V solar panel connected to 2 - 12V Diehard Platinum PM-1 deep cycle batteries through a regulator. I am powering a 12V sampler and pump.

I understand the difference between voltages doubling and amperages doubling between series and parallel setups. The answer I can’t seem to find is which setup will cause the batteries to last longer. With the large capacity of the batteries I would think increasing the amperage draw down would yield the most efficient setup but I am not sure. I don’t need 24V so series doesn’t seem to make sense. Please let me know what you think. “Deep cycle” lead-acid batteries are nothing more than regular lead-acid batteries with more lead in them. They last longer, because there is more stuff inside to be consumed.

And these are chemical reaction batteries - they are destroyed slowly during use. Watts, is Volts times Amps.

When using power from a battery, it supplies some amount of power (watts.) When recharging, those “used” watts are replaced, along with some extra watts for losses. Using this battery’s power, and replacing it, is what wears them out. So long story short, it doesn’t matter if the volts are higher or the amps - using any combination of the two causes wear. What WILL reduce wear, is using less watts from this battery, and keeping it as “full” as possible. Wear INCREASES as these batteries approach empty. If you completely discharge one of these each time, it may last 400 cycles.

But if you only discharge it 10% each time, it may last 10,000. Mark - There were 11 billion US dollar’s worth of motive power batteries in use in the world in 2010, that are deep cycle batteries, that have a life expectancy of 1500 cycles at 80% discharge. There are batteries on the market that are described as deep cycle but are actually regular batteries with thicker plates. There are also batteries on the market that are described as deep cycle that have positive plates with special alloy grids and special separators, that can achieve 800 cycles based on 2X18 hole golf duty per day. The difference between a so-called regular and a deep cycle is more than merely the amount of lead that is put into the battery.

The plates are different, the grids are different, the separators are different. Technically, yes but the point is, they are consumed as they are used. They are a chemical way to store energy, and will wear out - no matter how “good” they are designed. When it comes to the wear though, the wear increases for all lead-acid batteries as they approach the discharged state, deep-cycle or not. “Deep cycle” is an abused buzzword, making buyers think these can be completely discharged 1000’s of times, and that simply isn’t true. 80% discharged is a lot different than 90% discharged, and no lead-acid battery will survive even dozens of complete discharges. I am trying to power SMD 5050 LED modules inside a lightbox.

My challenge is, there in no AC power. I need some type of battery soloution, but they must last as long as possible. The lights are located in convenient/gas stations in the middle aisles where there is no power. I’m open to rechargeable, but original charge needs to last as long as possible. (I don’t see the everyday employees changing out the batteries as needed). It will end up being a rep which is in the stores maybe once a month.

Look forward to your comments. Thanks, Bob Kennard Bark Project Management 630-964-5876 bob.kennard@barkpm.com.

V.helpful site - many thanks. I have been looking for an answer to this question but can’t find anything reliable on the net that deals precisely with my question. I have an isolated property with no mains power so I had installed a solar/battery system 8 years ago with 12 x 2v 750A/100h lead/acid deep cycle batteries in series producing 24v nominal. Solar charging with proper controller and Victron inverter/charger/transfer switch with generator backup.

I have been having some odd power outs recently and having begun to understand the technology (say 5%!) I got hold of a specific gravty measuring device for lead acid batteries and checked all the cells SGs when they were resting (no significant load or charge) and near fully charged. All 2v cells were at acceptable SG level and about the same SG except one at the end of the series which had a much lower SG than the rest. From what I have read I am beginning to understand that this might happen because the first (or is the last?) in a battery bank series is subject to much greater demand/stress and so ages more quickly. My questions are: 1.Is my understanding correct?

Should I switch the order of the existing batteries, placing the weakest (presently the end of series) to the middle of the battery bank? Should I replace the weak battery, accepting that it’s life will come to an end at the seame time as the remaining batteries in the bank? I believe there may be 4 years+ life in the remaining batteries. Same as 3 but is there a difference in SG that determines the necessity of replacing the weak battery? Finally, shoudl I switch the order of the batteries say each year to achieve a more even ‘wear’ of the cells? A response would be greatly appreciated and I thank you in advance.

Alistair - The cell with the low SG is probably not going to survive much longer. It is unlikely its position has anything to do with this. Have you been equalizing your cells?

What I mean by this is this. It is impossible for all the cells to have identical characteristics and their state of charge will get out of step over time. The solution is to give all the cells a periodic gentle overcharge, (C/20), after they have been brought to, what appears to be, full state of charge. If the battery is not equalized the lowest cell(s) could become reverse charged during a deep discharge and suffer permanent damage. Interesting how I can pick up the wrong information, despite best research efforts.

Last June (2013) the batteries started behaving erratically with voltage collapsing only a few hours after they seemed to be fully charged. They were showing much lower capacity than usual. What you have explained resonsates with me because I discovered last June that the solar array did not have sufficient power to put the solar battery charger into equalisation mode frequently because of the regular demand on the batteries.

I ran the generator with its charger at equalisation voltage a few times leaving a week or so between and then when charged to the max I performed two capacity tests using first a 500w lamp and then a 1,000w lamp. The batteries showed an 8-9kw/h capacity which I thought was pretty good for them. I then doubled the size of the array and bought a Tristar MPPT which has a logging and webpage feature that showed me that equalisation was happening for about 3 hours every month. Despite all this, with the batteries fully charged, the first cell in seres is showing an SG of 1.150 whilst the rest are at 1.250-1.270 at 23ºC. I conclude from your comments that there is nothing to be done about the defective cell and the best thing to do is to replace it with a new one of identical spec because it will collapse soon. Although the replacement cell will only be useful for the remaining life of the battery bank, at least it will allow the remaining cells to be useful for their normal lifespan. I would appreciate confirmation that I have understood crrectly.

Thanks again John. Its great to have confirmation of these things. I will double check the equalisation and other charging parameers to make sure that the solar controller and generator battery charger are set up correctly. In anticipation of your response I checked to see whether there might be any potential snags with replacing a single cell in a 2v x 12 battery bank. I was surprised to find an article in the trojan website, (Item 11) that states unequivocally that this is a dangerous thing to do. Are they oversttaing the risk, i.e.

Not taking into account of situations where all the other existing batteries are in good condition, good SGs and with plenty of life left in them? I promise to leave you in peace after this last question! Alistair - I read the Trojan info. I find what manufacturers say and what they do not say significant.

Undercharging is a very common problem. It causes batteries to become sulfated. Accidents with batteries are less common. There are (legal) warnings on batteries concerning explosion hazards and acid corrosion burns, no warning advising users to keep battery charged.

What you might find is that the new cell will have a higher voltage than the others with the battery near full state of charge. It may begin to gas earlier than the others and may use more water. Hi, this is a very useful website.

Thanks for creating this website. I have two 12 volt 17AH sealed lead acid battery which has already “dead”. No matter how long I charge it the open voltage cell is becomes 10.8 volt after a while without any load. I’m planning to further drain the voltage of both of the battery to 6.9 volt. After that I intent to configure it in series to get a nominal voltage of 13.8 volt.

For charging I will use a 12 volt battery charger to maintain the voltage of 13.8 volt. Can i do this? In a sense that I took advantage of a “dead” 12 volt battery and use it as a 6 volt battery. I have in my solar system 2 AGM battteries connected in serial, 130Ah each, and I have been using them for 2 years. Now I need to increase the capacity by adding in parallel anew serial block of 2 batteries.

I have seen that for the new serial block I should use batteries of same technology and capacity and if possible from the same manufacturer. My second doubt is: Should I connect together the new batteries in the new serial block or mix in every serial block one of the new batteries with one of the old ones? Thanks a lot Dan.

After charging them for sometime (not fully) I put them in the flashlight and after 24 hours all the new ones are having 1.37 Volts at rest and two of the older ones have 1.37 volts also but two of the old ones are holding 1.39 Volts and 1.41 Volts. Should I fully charge them and then compare? I do not use the flashlight regularly and only use it for a minute or two.

I plan test for a few weeks and will monitor the voltage regularly. In case the difference remains the same should I replace the two with different voltage?

I have 4 new, 6 volt Golf Cart Batteries. I have a trolling motor 40 amps. The Batteries say 215 20HR CAP / 105 mins @ 75A My trolling motor has a rocker switch from 12 volt to 24 volt. And it has 4 speeds no matter which of the two volts I choose.

When the rocker switch is on 12 volts it would be using my #1 and #2 batteries then on 24 volts it would use all 4 batteries. About how long will the motor run with the switch on 12 volt and 24 volt. How about if I wired all 4 batteries to make a 12 volt bank. And the motor would only work with all 4 batteries in a 12 volt battery bank? I am looking on getting the longest amount of time on the lake before I have to paddle. Ha Ha I understand speed #1 would achieve that but lets assume #4 since that is the 40 AMP setting.

Simon - You have two 12V batteries in series fed from a 24v charger. The batteries feed into a 24V inverter. So far, so good. You must not connect the batteries to the charger, nor the inverter if you have them in parallel.

You must not connect a 12V load to only one of the batteries. The word BOTH makes your question ambiguous. Let me guess. You are planning to disconnect both batteries from the charger and the inverter. Then, after they are disconnected, you want to parallel them and drive the pump. That will work and it will drain your batteries. If you leave the charger connected you might damage it.

Depends on its design. Hi John, Thanks for the quick reply I can explain further I have 24v Solar panels connected to the 24v charge controller.

I have a connection from the 24v charge controller feeding the 2 x 12v batteries setup in series. I have a connection from the 24v + and - to the 24v DC to AC inverter. I can run the 12v pump no problem just using + and - on one of the 12 v batteries. But I am trying double the run time to get 160 Ah at 12v.

I have drawn the schematic for the BOTH series and parallel on only 2 x 12v (looks complicated) and I cannot find any other resource on the internet where someone else has done this with ONLY 2 x Battery. Every other configuration using BOTH series and parallel consist of 4 x batteries. My plan was to leave everything connected and just connect the pump on only one battery + and - as and when needed. Simon - You will shorten the life of your batteries because one will become permanently undercharged and the other permanently overcharged. If you can, I suggest you build a simple 24V in - 12V out power converter. A transistor, (probably an FET) switch with a permanent 50% on, 50% off duty.

The switching frequency can be a few hundred cycles. You need a freewheeling diode across the motor. You can feed the motor directly with the square-wave. The motor will make some noise but that does not matter.

Dear John, I would very much appreciate your input or that of the experienced members to advise me whether I can proceed with series/parallel connection for the following equipment, and to let me know if there would be any risk of battery explosion if such series/parallel is implemented for the following scenario: Current Situation - 1 x 8 KVA INVERTOR/UPS - Input voltage: 96v - Output: 220v - 22A max The equipment is currently connected to 8 x 12v lead acid batteries of 200 AMP each, in series in order to supply the 96V input power. No parallel connection so far meaning that I only have 200AMP storage out of the 8 batteries which is a bit a waste of resources and certainly a huge cost. Knowing that the invertor is connected in offline mode to the grid, it provides a backup power of around 8 hours per day. The batteries are now 2 years old and during the 1st year I used to power the whole house (22A grid) including 6 hours runtime for 1x 12000BTU AC. Question 1: is it possible to proceed with a series/parallel connection with such heavy duty batteries? To what maximum amperes i.e. 400, 600, 800, etc knowing that the invertor has a built in charger and it used to take 12-16 hours to fully charge the batteries.

Question 2: if I can proceed with the series/parallel connection to the maximum available amperage (8x200=1600AMP) without any risk, I would replace the batteries with a lower amperage for example 50 AMP to obtain a total of 400AMP (8x 50) and I can still double the power time with much less cost, can you advise me of such set up, and would there be any risk of whatsoever? Sorry for the long message, I would very much appreciate your feedback and thanking you in anticipation for your hard work. Best regards, Yves Landon. Yves - Connecting batteries in parallel is not simply a matter of connecting the same voltage and the same ampere-hours.

They must be an identical type of an identical age. Battery performance is never identical. They might seem to work fine for a while but then some will start falling out of step with their partners. This will get progressively worse. The self discharge rate and the end of charge voltage will change more for some than for others.

You will find that the charge present in individual batteries will drift apart. There is no easy solution.

It is highly likely you will regret using batteries in parallel. You will end up juggling their position, trying extra charging on some, spending endless frustrating hours on an avoidable mission. When batteries are connected in series, they also start falling out of step but this can be fixed by giving the whole string a periodic light current overcharge called an equalizing charge. Problem: My camera takes 2 AA batteries. I want to take time lapse and motion detection photos while camping.

This requires more battery capacity than 2 AA’s will provide and I’ll have no recharge available. Solution: Make a battery pack of 4 parallel sets of AA’s in series. (2AA’s in series)x4 in parallel for 3 volts and 10800mAh.

One set of AA’s will be inserted in the camera wired to the other 3 sets externally. My plan is to hike in, set up the camera, plug in the battery pack and let the camera run for an extended period. All batteries will be alkaline Duracells. Question: could I use C or D cells for the external pack? Example: (2 AA’s in series) wired in parallel to (2 D’s in series) for a total of 3 volts and 14700 mAh, then the 2 AA’s would be inserted in the camera. Hi all, Firstly great site! Now the nitty gritty.

I’m building an ebike from scratch as a project as im bored and need some advice on a couple of things i dont fully understand yet. I’m going to get a 48v 1000w hub motor and need a battery that wiil provide enough power to last a while. My thought is building a 13s14p cell pack using 2600ah li ion cells 3.7v.

(13*3.7 =48.1v) - (2.6a*14=36.4ah). This would theoretically provide me with a 1747.2watt battery pack. From what i have read an ebike run at full throttle should use 20w per km. So that would mean i could use this battery for 87.3 km roughly. Please adivice if this is wrong. My question is about the amperage.

Should i purchase a 60amp controller and a bms that can handle 60amps as well? My thoughts was to have double tolerance for safety. As im not an electrician and new to this i want to get a complete grasp on the theory. Also if the battery cells only have a 2c rating will this cause issues with safety when at top speed going up hill? I am looking for information on when you parallel batteries (I learned that it increases my Ah.) Li-Ion batteries for example. If I am looking for a certain Discharge Rate (C-rate), of lets say 50Acont. When I start putting batteries in parallel, of lets say 40Acont and 80Amax Discharge Rate, does putting batteries in parallel increase my Discharge Rate?

Does it double it? I can see how when you parallel, the “streams or pipes” add up, so in my mind I would say the Discharge Rate would just keep adding up, more and more, the more you parallel batteries. Any help would be appreciated. If my response had provided all the requisite technical information, I would effectively have chosen the high road. I chose the low road in order to find out if someone might jump in to berate me - or chose the high road and provide the requisite technical information. Michael, Do not connect the batteries in the way you described.

Your suggestion will cause a massive current surge and perhaps an explosion. Mark, Connecting batteries in series is easy. Connecting them in parallel requires special care to make sure they are precisely matched. Wow, that got a little out of hand. Let me get more specific. I have a design where I have 4 lithium ion batteries in series/parallel. I don’t have a mechanical feature that prevents installing one of them backwards, so if one is installed backwards that would put them in series, but 3 would be positive and one would be negative.

I’m just trying to confirm my assumptions that the 3 batteries (11.1V) would try to charge the one battery (3.4V) and cause the 3.4V to heat up and eventually catch fire. To fix this I put a diode on each series leg of the parallel circuit. What do you think about that solution? Would using 4 series NiMH be better? Well I found the information I needed elsewhere. The C-rate (cont.

& max) are the same, they cannot be change within the battery. However the total Amperage cont and max of the outgoing “stream” does increase. So in my example 40/80A, would be 80/160A (cont./max) There is no need to give out voltage or configuration info, as this is basic circuit knowledge. But I am either using Li-Ion or LiFePO4, at 72V and 10Ah packages. I will parallel them to increase the range.

My RC Lipo with high discharge blew up and caught fire on July 1 Canada day and almost burned down my house. Highly discharged battery, below spec, and charged too fast. They expanded, expelled gas and within 5 minutes 2 packs burst into fireworks catching the other 4 batteries on fire.

RC Lipo is very dangerous, very. DO NOT USE LIPO BATTERIES. THEY HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO BURN DOWN HOUSES!!!!!! But yeah, I believe you need to keep the chemistry, V and Ah the same when paralleling. But I dont think its the end all be all.

I believe there is some lee-way. Four batteries in series parallel implies two in series, another two in series, the two series connected pairs then connected in parallel. Reversing the polarity of one battery in one series connected pair reduces the voltage generated by that pair to zero - equivalent to a short circuit. Placing this arrangement in parallel with a pair of series connected batteries causes a short circuit current to flow.

Connecting a diode in series with each series connected pair allows a discharge current to flow but prevents the batteries being charged. This applies to all types of batteries. I mean no disrespect but I really do find it disconcerting that people can operate a device as complicated as a computer, yet cannot reason out a simple thing like this.

Sadly, Dr Jack, some of us have no backgrounds even remotely related to electronics and electrical setuos. I’m able to identify bacteria under a microscope but for whatever reason get totally befuddled by battery layouts. I need pictures and diagrams to sort it out.

Having had a series of TIA’s and a stroke made it nearly impossible to sort verbally. But with help I’m learning to build packs that are safe and work.

But again I usually need to ask someone to help me “map” out the wiring of the balance leads and BMS. I have a similar experience when I instruct someone in horticultural techniques.

It seems second nature to me but then I have 45 years of experience and knowledge gathering. C rate is another totally confusing concept for me. Thanks to those who are patient and understand that not everyone has the same skills, I’m learning.

I just purchased a SeaDoo Seascooter (underwater scooter) that has a 12v 12mAh sealed lead acid (SLA) battery. I was thinking of constructing my own battery to get slightly higher speed (voltage) and distance (mAh). I realize that motor is designed for a 12 volt battery, but slightly higher voltage (around 14 volts) would probably be acceptabel.

Example of what I was thinking: 4 x Lithium Ion AA 3.6 volt batteries in series = 14.8 volts and then 5 parallel groupings to equal a 14.8 volt and 15 Ah battery back. This would give me a slightly faster scooter and longer range. Would something like this work? I’ve read elsewhere that exceeding 3 parallels in battery banks has greater risk of fire or explosion. I’m trying to get 4 banks of 8 6V batteries (so, each bank is 48V) charged, then fed to an inverter. I’m pretty sure with virtually any MPPT chargers currently on the market, I will need two chargers, each charging two of these banks. My question then is, can I safely input the four 48V banks to a single inverter (8kw) which takes 48V input, by putting all 4 banks in parallel, to this one inverter?

The math works out, but this requires tying 4 banks in parallel, even if right at the inverter input bus, The reason I’d rather avoid using two or more inverters is the cost (especially as I need 240V, so they must be matched/bonded), or to be safe, must I just accept the necessity of using two inverters so as not to exceed two battery banks feeding each inverter? Jim - It is a bad idea to parallel deep cycling batteries. They are unlikely to have identical characteristics to begin with and will get out of step with each other within a few months. Some will end up overcharged, some will end up undercharged. Battery life will be reduced. This line of business has become highly competitive.

The technically challenged among the competitors will will say it is OK to parallel. It has nothing to do with fire, explosion. There are inverters on the market that you can safely parallel. Need a little help. I have 6 3.7v batteries hooked up in parallel series to make 11.1v so it 3 in series connected parallel. Positive wire to negative. How do I set the charger?

Here my options For 7.2/7.4V 2-cell pack, set switch button 8.4 position on the charger For 10.8/11.1V 3-cell pack, set switch button 12.6 position on the charger For 14.4/14.8V 4-cell pack, set switch button 16.8 position on the charger* here is my charger http://www.amazon.com/TLP-2000-Tenergy-Universal-Charger-3-7V-14-8V/dp/B001BEXDRQ. I have done 3KW solar power generator for home. Battery getting charged by 2.30 -3.00 pm everyday.

I have used 48 v system with 12V 200Ah 4 batteries in series combination. In night, I want to charge my REVA Electric Car and battery is going to Low cutoff value (10.8V/battery) and power is switching off in night. I plan to increase capacity from 48V 200Ah to 48V 300 Ah in Series and Parallel combination and improve the power discharge REVA car consumes 3-4 KWh units of electricity every day. Please suggest any alternative for my requirement. How much battery to be discharged every day for long life of battery? Can I use 7.5 Kilo watt Tesla battery?

Please suggest remedy. I am trying to build a battery pack for an e-bike conversion, the motor uses 1000W and is a 48V system. I want to use some salvaged lithium batteries I have been collecting from work. Target battery pack size is 20Ah / 48V DC. The battery packs which I am getting from work are designated as 14.8v dc, 6.15 amps, and 91.02Wh.

I have already opened up a pack and know there are 12 18650 lithium cells inside.unfortunately no info is written on the cells. I measured them and all are at 3.65v dc. If I do the math with the above pack parameters then each cell would have a capacity of 2000mA and a nominal charge of 3.7v. To get to 20Ah for the battery I would need 9 serial strings in parallel, I think the annotation is 13S9P, 13 serial and 9 parallel strings. 121 batteries total.does that sound correct? Is there a test I could do to really determine the Ah capacity of a cell rather than rely on the documentation on the pack?

If We have two groups of batteries in parallel,each group consist of 9 batteries in series. The system is 110 Vdc. Because of one defected battery in the second group & the non-ability to disconnect this group from the battery dis-connector.we will disconnect the battery only from the group & keep its circuit open.also open the loop in many another points. But finally we will keep the positivist connected to the first battery the negative connected to the last battery & all in between open. Is this right,what is the side effect to the second working group. Hello to all, For Ray: 1. I had one e-bike with AGM 3x12V 10Ah defective battery, 36V system.

After long tests, I upgraded the battery box in dimensions, voltage and capacity with AGM 4x12Vx (2x7Ah) + 1x6V (2x7Ah) = 54 V 14Ah, batteries for UPS, high rate. My chinese controller supports 60V with no problems, after I changed all electrolytic capacitors to 100V (and Power FET to 80A/100V).

Now, I have 4 years of use for my e-bike and the 350 W hub motor (only.) can push me to 35 Km/h. The range is ~ 30Km, because I like speed [ I am from Romania and the bike was made in Hungary, I presume ]. So, in your case, I do the math: 48V / 3,7V = 13 cells in series 20Ah/2Ah = 10 cells in parallel You ~right, you need 130 good cells 18650 Li-Ion, it is a 13S10P battery. It goes OK with 12S10P=120 cells, or 13S9P=117 cells, but range is reduced. 12S10P it gives more range compared to 13S9P, but lower maximal speed, in my opinion.

Maximum voltage after charging is 4,2V x 13 = 54,6 V (for 13S10P). The range and life for battery is affected by the Voltage disconnect of the controller, of course. The controller accept 60V with no problems, so looks OK to me. Until 2012, I tested my batteries by discharging ~ 50% with a 12V 2155W halogen bulb from car, a clock and an ammeter.

Then, I get one “Watt’s up meter” for RC hobbysts which ease the measurements with my old bulbs! Shola - Batteries that are connected in series automatically always carry the same current, (at each positive terminal), regardless of whether they are being charged or discharged. They will have slightly different ampere-hour ratings due to tiny differences in materials, in processing, and so on, incurred in manufacturing.

They will also possess slightly different self-discharge rates for the same reason. They will get out of step very slowly, over time.

Hence some will become discharged while other still carry some charge. It is something that is easily overcome by giving the entire string a low current overcharge from time to time. This is called an equalizing charge. The first to become fully charged will gas until the last becomes fully charged. After that all the batteries will be in step again, at least for some time.

Sealed batteries either cannot easily be be equalized or cannot be equalized at all, hence their cells become hopelessly unbalanced, hence they have relative short lives. Amin wrote: In figure 3 and fig 4, can charge it? Even one of those are not equal to each other batteries. Yes, you can! With some extra work, of course.  Like humans, batteries are not identical each other.

I consider in this case only batteries of same capacity, voltage and mark, in state of order. This means their real capacity is over 80% of marked capacity and they have different state of charge. In series, the charge current will bring at full first the weakest battery, theoretically.

For safer charge, you must monitoring the battery/cell with the highest voltage, (the voltage to not overcome the upper limit recommended). “The weakest element of the system will give the strength of the system”. So, you must remove the weakest element to not have complications and problems in next future, and to ensure a good performance of the string.

In parallel it’s easier, the strongest battery will help the weakest. They would last longer. Before connecting in parallel, it’s fine to verify each battery for self discharge or even internal shorted battery, to not deplete the good ones (defective batteries/cells). In my solar system, from 2011, I use over 50 batteries mixed connected, usually in parallel when I need 30V and 10A.30A for lighting and 1,2 kVA inverter & UPS, and in series, 180V DC, (for circular saw and tools at 230V with universal motors, enough to work satisfactory). Since 2013, each year, 12 batteries, the oldest, had to be removed, which is quite normal, I think.

Shola wrote: I have a series/parallel battery pack made up of 6 12V 200AH/10HR batteries (2S3P setup). My questions are as follows what will be the ideal charging current for the setup, secondly will the charging current be the same at each +ve terminal and finally is it true that one set of batteries will get fully charged/discharged before the other or they get fully charged/discharged at the same time.

Thank you in advance for your enlightenment. Ideal charging configuration it’s the 2 groups in parallel (12V), because all batteries will have the same voltage. But it’s not easy to change the connections with thick wires and screws two times at every cycle, I believe So, you have 2 groups connected in series of 3 batteries in parallel, each. In accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications, recommended charging current will be, I suppose, 10% of the battery capacity. For 2S3P setup, the bulk charge current will maximum ~60A, and voltage will not overcome 28V, usually. A smaller current will be fine, 40.50A. As I said at the beginning of my post, the two branches currents will be close, should not differ by more than 10%, let’s say 24A and 26A it sound OK for 50A charging.

When charging, especially during equalization, batteries will reach almost the same voltage each. The lead and NiCd batteries have this feature. When discharging, the weakest group of 3 batteries will have the lowest voltage, so you need to stop discharging at a voltage higher than the limit, let’s say 11,8V under maximum 60A load. It’s good to not discharge more then 30.50% of battery capacity to achieve a long life. Read the manufacturer’s recommendations, I learned a lot from these datasheets.  Have a good work!

Shola, NanuN - If batteries are connected in parallel, they will get get out of step and will progressively get more out of step. Some of them will fail prematurely, regardless how the entire group is charged and/or discharged. The only viable solution is to disconnect, give each series string an individual equalizing charge, and do this on a regular basis. Connecting batteries in parallel is a very bad idea. Solar vendors will cheerfully sell these configurations because the competition is fierce and they automatically look for the cheapest batteries to sell.

There is a bigger turnover in smaller batteries, hence these batteries are less expensive in parallel than unparalleled bigger batteries. I have a solar backup and use a high ampere-hour non-paralleled string, which I purchased regardless of what the salesman was trying to sell. A proper solar controller will automatically seek the maximum power point, and then charge the batteries in bulk mode (at maximum power), then absorption mode (voltage limited), and finally float (reduced voltage).

It is a good idea to limit bulk charging to C/5. NabuN - Batteries/ battery cells on equalizing charge never develop the same voltage during or immediately upon completion. I understand the series addtion of volts and the parallel addition of amp hours but my question is what happens to the resultant continuous current or max current that a battery can handle in the following configuration example: If a single 12v lithium 80ah battery has a continuous current rating of 80 amps what would happen to the continuous current and max current ratings of the new resultant battery where 6 of these are connected in series to have 72volts and another 6 are added in parallel to have a total of 480 ah?

Do the continuous and max current ratings also go up and would it be 480 amps? Thank you in advance. I have installed off grid solar system at home. Its 24v system. After two years all of a sudden battery backup time reduced to 40 min. I checked the voltage of both batteries. Battery B voltage drops quite quickly during on load condition.

While on full charge condition both batteries have the same voltage. One if my friend was saying that after changing these batteries switched off the whole system for 3 t 4 hrs and let batteries to settle or balance. Please help me in this situation, what should I do with AGM batteries. @ Frederick Sure you can. Butwhy you connect them in series?

You need to take precautions when use over 48V DC voltage. Like I wrote upper, I use 30 V DC at our off grid country house and 23 times by week I need 180 V DC. I had some issues, especially when the standard switch used for 230 VAC has burned out at the disconnection of a 2 KW leaf blower. Then, I mounted some suppression circuitry. In your case, for charge and equalize all batteries in the same time, you need to put them in parallel, like I do since 2011. It requires 7 times less attention concerning monitoring charge voltage. @ Brenda Your Li-Ion battery seems to be OK if the voltage is higher than 2,83 V.

So, first, I suspect the external AC adapter / connector of the tablet. The ability of internal charger did not depend on battery voltage, it’s monitoring the voltage and current thru battery. Second, maybe your battery is defective, I understand it’s removable. Try to change one by one with somebody who have same model tablet.

@ Fahad Battery B seems to be defective. If you let batteries few hours free, the voltage will drop a little and you can measure SOC voltage. But this does not help the end-of-life battery B. From my experience, I prolonged the life of weak AGM batteries by watering them. But I did not gain much time, sometimes a week, maybe one month. The corroded cell(s) / bridge will heat, reduce the external power supplied and make smell and boiling bubbles sounds when you connect 20.30A load to this battery. I even tried to make 10V battery removing / shorting the defective cell and I learned it not worth to do this.

Usually, flooded and gel batteries have a longer life. You need to buy a new pair of batteries for the solar system, same model, mark, date of production. The low cost solution, at your own risk: measure the real capacity at discharging of battery A and buy just one AGM battery of this capacity.and monitor both frequently and attentively at charge / discharge.

If the capacity of A battery is lower than 85.90% of marked capacity (Ah) this solution don.t worth to be implemented, because battery A will soon be defective, like her “sister”, B. @ Nikola A group of 2 raw in parallel, each raw with 6 batteries (rating 80Aso much?) in series, will have maximum 2*80=160Ah capacity and will supply maximum 160A according to specifications and the LOAD. If you want a 480 Ah battery with 480A (!!) maximum rating current from these 6+6 batteries of 12V, you configure them in 2 groups in series, each group containing 6 batteries in parallel. So you’ll have only 2*12V= 24V. Anthony Your question does not really give much info. 4 x 1.5V can be 6.0v in series or 1.5V in parallel.

You will need to check how they are configured If the light unit is equipped with an external jack it should have on it the voltage and which part of the jack is negative. If you need to replace batteries, you can simply buy a set, and replace them when dead. If this frequency is too often then go hard wire as it seems an over kill to run a charger cable to the light for charging batteries instead of hard wiring the light, direct Robbo.

@ Veng.mmmmmmmm Yes you can but they wont last long options A) get another battery that exactly matches the old even to the state of Decay, or get 2 new is best B) get another solar array and split your unit in two @ Pete. Never seen anyone STACK batteries, weight is one issue and air space of 50mm around for ventilation and cooling may be a problem. Battery boxes are normally made with this space allowed for as on hot days the batteries are even hotter, which increases the resistant which increases the heat the list goes on. In RVs the box needs to be constructed strongly to stop batteries flying around and arcing out( High Amps BIG sparks) and have 3/8 rubber pad for reduced vibration heat ransfer, and have a screw down frame on each battery, so as NOT to pull out terminals. Batteries are heavy and create high forces especially if the vehicle rolls or crashes.

You dont want 100Kg batteries flying, then the Acid. Batteries need to be inspected regularly, even maintenance free must be checked monthly (Excide Aircraft Gel types stipulate logging each cell and checking torque of terminals each month for warranty, how many of us do it. BTW Solar is more EFFICIENT on a cooler day often with scattered cloud, although the unit wont create as much power it does not have to as fridges in particular are not working so hard.

I had experience of a large system that ran out of puff on days over 44C due to near melt down Have a look at a Cat D9 battery box takes up the whole space under operators seat. They are a work of art, but really needed for safety and hold batteries secure against all odds Robbo. @ Veng: Without wishing to argue with anyone here, in my experience over 40 years with lead batteries of 12V and 6V and degree in electrical engineering, I can say that the parallel connection of two batteries the same type and not necessarily the same capacity or age, is certainly better for their (remaining) lifetime compared to serial configuration for several reasons: 1. Capacity is larger of the assembly (equal to their sum of real capacity) and currents of charging/discharging smaller than if would be used only one of them. SOC of the batteries are quasi-identical, due to terminal voltage which is the same for both batteries. It is easier to monitor and correct the voltage of one battery than the voltage of 2 (3.

N) batteries, and if a battery have cell(s) shorted, it will be seen as the terminal voltage drops and can intervene timely. Usually, most defects are with internal interruption/increase of internal resistance (in the ratio of 10. 20/ 1 face of internal shorting). In your case, for 2 solar panels with 36 solar cells maximum charge current will be ~2x150W/18V = 16.5 A, supportable by any individual battery, the better of the two in parallel.

The currents will be divided thru batteries in reverse proportion to their internal resistance, in the first approximation ~9A for the 200Ah and ~7A for the other. In 8.9 hours of one sunny day they will be charged with an energy of ~ 1.6kWh (35.40% of maximum). If the inverter is for 12V, the load current will not exceed 900VAx0.6/11V=45A and is divided into ~26A through 200Ah battery and ~19A through 150Ah battery. The autonomy at maximum power will exceed 6 hours, if the batteries were loaded to full capacity. Take care to have thick and good connectors / screws to terminals and same length of cable from “output” of the 350Ah battery to each component battery.

So, it can be done without much expenses, with care and attention! @ Pete: I stored SLI batteries/auto one on top of another, but only for short-term (13 weeks),I even put three pieces on a vertically stack.

For stationary applications I put only two batteries one of top of another, for reasons of mechanical resistance (to not crack the plastic case, in time), with spacers from rubber/plastic acid resistant, bands of 1-2 cm thick and took care to NOT cover the vent plugs. SLA and AGM batteries need a small amount of ventilation, so I simply put an expanded polystyrene between batteries.

After 5 years I have no problem with them, they are NOT in a box. In a closed box it’s better to insulate all the interior walls to achieve a good thermal isolation of batteries from external medium and reduce mechanical shocks. So, can you try 3 batteries (not heavier than 20 Kg each) one on top of another with some precautions. At your own riskand let us know about? Peace to all. While this is the general rule there would be certain exceptions.

When running in series one can for example use a 2 cell and a 3 cell to easentially have a 5 cell lithium battery. A 2s 50c 5000mAh battery in series with a 3s 50c 5000mAh battery will be the same as if purchasing one single 5s 50c 5000mAh lithium battery. Im not suggesting mixing brands or an old cell with a new cell however starting with two new cells of like batteries you are essentially working with the same construct of internal material. Checking Internal Resistance and using said batteries together for the life of the batteries you will be fine in this particular situation. We do this all the time in the Hobby world and see like IR ghroughout the life span and voktage drain is consistent across all the cells. If one were to use different manufactures or qualities of batteries you may find one will discharge faster than the other. Keep it simple and match the cells and brand and you wont likely have any issues.

I have a New Years eve ball that i am trying to power. It has 12 led strips on it that run at 12 V and requires 240 watts per strip. I am trying to build a battery pack using the 6V Square lantern batteries. They are 6V 26000mah batteries. I currently have it setup a with 4 pairs of batteries running in series so i am getting 12V at 26000mah powering 4 strips. But the LEDs arent as bright as they should be. What would be the best way to wire these.

Everything i know about electricity and current i have read online. I was thinking about trying to do a series and parallel setup to power the entire thing. I need a total of 2880 watts at 12V. To power the entire thing but im being cautious because i dont want to have them blow up on me. @ John D.: OK!

Of course, you need a 1500W or 2000W (better) true sine wave inverter at 24V input voltage. I recommend a 24V inverter because the currents at 12V will exceed 1500W/12V/0.9 ~ 140 A and the conductors will be very thick, heavy and hard to work with them: AWG4 (~ 20 mm.sq.). In 3 minutes, the energy consumed will be 1500W/0.9 x 3/60 = 83.3 Wh. So, you need a Li-Po battery (more resistant and tolerant than Li-Ion) having 24V/3.7V ~ 7 cells in series and 25C (discharge rate) x capacity >70 A.

The capacity is 84Wh/24V = 3500 mAh, if you discharge 100% the battery (ideal). For safety temperature and acceptable lifetime of battery, it’s better to discharge 50% the pack. So, I think a 7S2P battery containing 2 x 7 cells, 3.6V 15C.25C =3500mAh each will do this task quite well. After studying the offers and prices, I realize that it’s difficult to find and connect 7 cells in mixed mode, so the battery pack can be 8S2P, composed by 2 groups in parallel of 2 x 14.8 V 30003500 mAh 15c25C (in series).

The battery cost will be somewhere at 120 US$. The battery pack weights ~ 1.5 Kg, life cycles will be ~ 60 and the charger is expensive. Almost any 24V inverter accept 29,6V input voltage with no issues, at full load the voltage will decrease to 2223V.

Concerning batteries, if you use two high rate 12V AGM batteries in series, like CSB HR1290W, you’ll have over 4 min. At 1500W (50% discharge rate). The batteries weight ~13.6Kg!, the cost is ~90 US$, life cycles will be over 100 and the charger is cheap: you can put the batteries in parallel to a 12V charger.

Great site and discussion. I just started a company with an energy storage and generation product and have secured my first customer. Functionality, reliability and cost are some of its hallmarks. I’m seeking a way to charge three or four 12V 200Ah AGM batteries that are connected in parallel which is connected to an inverter. Short of switching individual batteries in and out of a system to accomplish this, is there a way to use a marine or automotive battery charger to directly charge the system? Thank you for your help in advance Corey Fleischer Founder GMI corey@greenmachinesinc.com (310) 387-2400. I am trying to figure a solution for my problem.

Connecting 8 12V batteries for 24V charge and dual 24V and 96V outputs. Would diodes on the terminals of each battery cell be sufficient to prevent short circuit? Current configuration is 4 batteries connected in parallel for higher capacity and then connected in series for 24V charge and output. And I’m thinking of adding another layer of wiring to connect all 8 batteries in series (with one-way diodes to prevent short circuits) to achieve 96V output. Is something like this possible or should I just use a voltage booster? I have 10 batteries and I want to connect them to a home solar system, each battery is 12V 100A.

How do I connect all 10 batteries that I’m just getting a 24V 500A? Just parallel 2 strings of 5 x 100Ah in each string.

What you want is two separate batteries connect in parallel then couple the!2vdc positive (+) on string (A) to the negative(-) of the second string (B). String A will have the (-) negative pole and string (B) will have the (+) pole Just look at how they series 2 x 12V to give 24V in a truck Output=Discharge.

Batteries when measured in Ah is a rating of how many amps are produced, Example, a 100Ah battery gives 10 amps for 10hours a 0.1C. Or 100amps a 1C for 1 hr A 100Ah battery has a C or capacity rating of 1C=100Ah. Using 5 x 100Ah in parallel then series to 24Vdc gives 50amp discharge @ 24Vdc for 10 hrs @0.1C. Charging 0.1C to 0.3C ~ 50 to 85 amps @ 24Vdc Solar panels.

Should be 1,5 to 1 above the voltage of the bank and in your case 36V is ideal. String 10 x 300W in parallel. Note: the solar charge controller should be double the desired capacity as heat build up on hot days actually deducts from the said output once everything gets cooking. If you still have to purchase a charger again make sure its a MPPT as they are 30% more efficient than the older PWM (pulse width modulation) If you have NOT got a 24Vdc inverter yet go for the most efficient use of 10 x 12Vdc batteries which is a 120Vdc input inverter. Check that its maximum power point to point transmission (MPPT) with inbuilt charger 150Amp in your case.Check that it is at least IP65 (or better) encapsulation for weather dust ants insects etc. The fan cooled models blow all sorts of debris around as dust and a lot of that dust is conductive and/or corrosive. For longer life of your inverter open it up and use a Quality PCB surface spray as this reduces corrosion and eventual shorts.

These guys make a good quality and yet affordable inverter. The link is for their 384VDC 3 phase units. This partly answers myprevious post when I asked what is the maximum voltage batteries can give in series. Some units even double this input Hope this answers the question and not raise more.

Cheers robbo. Louis wrote: I have a 240 watt Solar panel (7.85Amp), 2x102 Amp Deep Cycle Batteries and Two 1500 Watt Inverters. I need to run 2 (perhaps even three) computers for 9 hours per day from them. What is the best way to wire and do my setup so that I will not run out of power within the 9 hours of each day. We have 5.5 hours of Solar ideal sunlight per day.

Is this possible or should I get another battery and connect my 80 Watt Panel up as well? The solution is in the last line.hook up the 80W panel to a 10Amp controller and the second inverter. Simply split the system.

Given that your 240W panel gives 7.8AMp that makes it a 30V panel, which is ideally matched to your (Calculated 240/7.8 =30 V) so just check that your 80W panel is the same voltage. For a good deal on batteries with free shipping go to Have just ordered 8 pieces and including handling costs they are under $US200 ea Clarification AGM = Absorbent Glass Mat, which use Sulfuric Acid Thixotropic Gel as electrolyte. These batteries are still sometimes referred to as lead acid, but dont produce as much gas and have safer handling Remember.the poor man buys twice Cheers robbo. Sierra Marson wrote: I’m trying to run a dc12-2amp stereo off a battery pack with 4 5”-5” speakers and was wondering how big does the battery pack need to be to run say 56 hours on a single charge if you use AA 2A 3000mAh 1.2 V Ni-MH rechargeable batteries?

Sierra DO the math. 12vdc@ 2 amp draw for 5 or 6 hours equal 10~12 Ah. The average car fridge draws 2.5amp and are traditionally wired to a second 100AH battery. Cheapest solution is go to the wreckers and get a half decent small car battery for $20 or a six pack for one of the guys, and a six pack for my tip Cheers robbo. On February 2, 2017 at 3:20pm drich5 wrote: I am trying to connect 8 12v 155ah agm batteries in parallel to achieve a perfectly balanced charge and draw.

Where might I find a wiring diagram? Ahhhhh to paint a picture in words Question 1..why would you need to parallel 8 x 12V batteries Answer better to keep higher efficiency and go 96Vdc series. This will give the batteries a better life and if you intend to hook them to an El cheapo 12V inverter with a stepup transformer of 20 to 1 you will need all of 1,240AH to last a night. Wiring.you dont state the draw/discharge you require.

But a 155AH AGM have a peak discharge of 2250Amps and realistically 155Amps for 1 hr. As a guide 150Amp welding machines use 35mm squared cable for a 2 meter earth cable. Put simply buy the connector or bridging cables rather than DIY., its cheaper.

Schematics of hook up. Row up all 8 batteries in a single line, that about 2.2M, Preform all cables so they are NOT under tension when installed. Connect all the positives together from left to right, ditto for negative.Use quality silicone heat and electrically conductive silicone paste between terminals and connectors/bridging cables.Use torque wrench for correct settings and DO NOT over tighten Now you should a a single Now you have a single1240Ah 12V battery. A word of CAUTION the SHORT CIRCUIT amperage is 90,000amp. (12x7500Amp) an explosive force you dont want to experience.

Use insulated tools, its only one spanner so buy if you dont have. Worst case shrink wrap socket extension bar and torque wrench, use electrician glove and approved safety glasses Tapping.when tapping into a parallel setup have the positive at one end and negative at the other end. It does not look as pedantic but this is the only way to get the power to flow. If both terminals are on the same battery a huge drop in performance is noticed.

Maintenance>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>torque terminals once a month to manufacturers specs. Check and log each Batteries SOC (state of charge) and if lower than average remove from string and give a de-sulphate charge Myself I am a series man Volts over Ah any time.

Hope this answers something Cheers robbo. On June 17, 2017 at 10:12am WILLIAM MARINI wrote: if I have 2 12 volt batteries and wire them in parallel to jump start a another car will I have more kick? Wiilliam If you have a lot of cars and want to make a permanent setup for both cars and trucks do what they do in Smiths, car/truck auctions in Perth WA, where cars trucks earth movers all end up with dead batteries. One of the employees says it must be a battery grave yard where they come to die. The big Cats and Komatsus take a lot to kick over so they built a hand cart with solar panel as a jump starter kit with 24V @ 250Ah. The leads are 90squared cable, about the thickest welding cable around and a solenoid to make and break once the leads are on.

As the yard boss explained its not so much the AH but with the solar charging the batteries are always topped up to 28.8V. When starting cars and 4WDs ather than reconnect to 12V they simply get you to turn the key then they hit the solenoid and bingo. All the power goes direct to the starter and doesnt do any damage I have an old SR5 Toyota as a beach bomb with a dead alternator thats $1200 to replace, so I charge it of the solar. I notice that when fully charged it starts in a second, instantly. But as the battery get lower it still cranks over but takes longer and longer to start. A HUGE difference in cranking speed between 13.2V and12V.

Word of Caution>>>>>>Never connect Aligator clamps to a bare lead terminal as if by accident the polarity is wrong you will blow off the terminal or worse have the battery explode in your face with a shower of acid over everything, always use battery clamps to protect the terminals.and use silicone paste when installing battery terminals to stop dry joints Yep 2 x12v batteries will give more grunt but only if both are over 12.6V Cheers robbo. Lucas buzek wrote: I am trying to figure a solution for my problem.

Connecting 8 12V batteries for 24V charge and dual 24V and 96V outputs. Would diodes on the terminals of each battery cell be sufficient to prevent short circuit? Current configuration is 4 batteries connected in parallel for higher capacity and then connected in series for 24V charge and output. And I’m thinking of adding another layer of wiring to connect all 8 batteries in series (with one-way diodes to prevent short circuits) to achieve 96V output. Is something like this possible or should I just use a voltage booster?

Lucas The first problem to overcome is how to charge 96V, that is 12x8 in series. Series connections prevail over parallel anytime. Second you do not say what you are running at each voltage The easiest way is to to series to 96V and tap off at 12V and 24V and keep the power swirling around with 4 x 30V solar panels and a 96Vdc controller. I know the purist wont agree but this is economics. I had a 48V 800Ah system a few years back and tapped in at 12V to run my stereo, ran it 2.1 config, 2 bridged 700W pioneer car amps for left and right and a third 700W for dedicated base. Could hear it kilometers away (the advantages of living in the bush where the closest neighbor is 50K south) All the purist said it would not work but did for a few years anyway.

Started out using it as a homing beacon whilst metal detecting for gold. The speakers took up most of the room on the truck. The second option is to get DC /DC converters to do the job and again depending on the draw and budget Keep me posted on how the diode thing progresses Remember, need is the mother of creation Cheers robbo.